String Spacing

guitarjack66

I bought a Sigma GA a few months back and it has become my regular guitar now. The body is still a bit bigger than I'd like but the neck and fingerboard are very comfortable. I have also mentioned my Harley Benton cheapo folk sized guitar with which I am not very impressed with and dont really get on with at all. I used to use my Squier jumbo as my daily player before the Sigma and felt it was very comfortable at the time. Well today I got both the HB out and the Squier and found that the reason I probably hate the HB more than anything is the string spacing,or lack of. I have small fingers but they are a little on the broad side,not sausage like but slightly wider than normal. My Squier also felt a bit narrower despite its neck being comfortable enough. I offloaded a Yamaha 3/4 sized about a year ago as I too felt the string spacing was too narrow. Is this something that others have noticed and does it matter or affect you personally?

dazzer22

String spacing shouldn't matter i would say it's probably best not even to think about it,  i have big hands and i have some of the narrowest string spacing on some of my guitars and they play and sound great,  you should be able to get use to playing just about anything , I used to stay away from slim necks on guitars because i have big hands but now some of my best guitars i own  have slim necks and i love them, 

Tannin

The term "string spacing" is usually used to refer to the spacing at the bridge. Technically, of course, it can be used for the spacing at any point, but when people say "string spacing" without qualification they almost always mean at the bridge. Some players have difficulty with unusually narrow or wide string spacing, most are pretty OK with anything in the midrange. Fingerstyle players tend to be the ones preferring wider spacing.

(I used to struggle a bit with average acoustic string spacing and was far more comfortable on my 12 (strung as a 6) whether I used pick or fingers but I have slowly become used to the narrowness of the average steel string guitar and my right hand no longer cares too much - though a little extra space for the fingers is always welcome.)

Reading your post, however, I think you are talking about spacing at the nut. In general, people talk about the pointy end of the guitar in terms of nut width and assume that the strings will be spaced out sensibly and reasonably evenly. (They usually are, so nut width is a perfectly usable proxy for string spacing at the nut.)

Contrary to @dazzer22, nut width is one of the most critical measurements of comfort and playability. Pressed to name the main factors in playability, I'd certainly mention body size (big jumbo vs parlour for example) and scale length, probably not worry about string spacing, and list nut width as second only to a playable action. It's a big deal. People who like little 43mm nuts really struggle on 12-strings and can't cope at all with classicals. People who grew up on classical or 12-string tend to get uncomfortable on 44mm nuts and find those dinky 42.5mm Takamine nuts a right pain. And some people (dazzer seems to be one of them) have the happy knack of being comfortable on anything from a mandolin (29mm) to a classical (52mm).

(As an aside, every player I have ever met has a few things he or she is fussy about, and a lot of other things that they are flexible on. Some players hate big guitars like jumbos and only feel comfortable on smaller instruments. Some hate skinny necks, some love 'em. Some like wide necks, some narrow ones, some like a C profile, some a V, some don't care. Some like long scales, some like short scales, some swing either way. Some hate humbuckers, some hate tremolo arms. And so on. And for every player that hates some particular thing, there is another player who loves it, and another three who don't care either way. )

Your HB probably has a 43mm nut, possibly even 42.5mm - these sizes are still common in Japanese and some Chinese guitars, though they have gone out of fashion elsewhere. That is very tight so fair enough if you are not comfortable on it. Your Sigma is probably 44.5mm - a middle-of-the-road width which nearly all players can get by on. 

TheMadMick

I gotta say that I'm not particularly sensitive to this but when the string spacing is very narrow (I had a sigma that was very narrow) it's hard to gert used to and requires a lot more accuracy in finger placement.

What I have found makes quite a difference for me is the fretboard radius. My L'arriveee is quite flat and it takes a few minutes to get used to it although the nut width is 43 - 44mm just ike most of my other guitars.

Tannin

Good point @TheMadMick. I didn't think to mention fretboard radius because I never notice it. But is that because I don't notice when it's different? Or because all the guitars I own or borrow have around about the standard radius? 

bertie

TheMadMick said:

I gotta say that I'm not particularly sensitive to this but when the string spacing is very narrow (I had a sigma that was very narrow) it's hard to gert used to and requires a lot more accuracy in finger placement.

 

this,  very much   - takes some "concentration"  to get the "muscle memory" back in

DartmoorHedgehog

I find it amazing that anybody reckons they can even tell the difference between 43 and 44mm nuts without measuring it, let alone finding 43mm "cramped" when they're used to 44.  It's 0.2mm difference between each string FFS!
Perhaps I'm just one of the lucky people who can't feel the pea under the mattresses.
OK, a 12-string feels noticeably wider to play (and presumably a classical 6-string, but I don't think I've ever played one), but 43 vs 44mm?

Soupman

You don't need to measure it - it's why some people feel (e.g.) Yamaha's cramped. And yes, 2mm makes a big difference to playability.
If you don't notice the difference (or cope with it easily) then that's great, it gives you a wider range of instruments to peruse.
Personally I'm more comfy with 45mm nut. Each to their own.
 
 

DartmoorHedgehog

Don't get me wrong @Soupman I didn't intend to imply that anybody who says they can tell the difference is wrong. I'm just genuinely amazed that people can notice such a small difference as 43 vs 44mm nut.  I'm happy that I don't care (or even notice in a lot of cases) - makes things easier for me

Tannin

That's a big difference, @DartmoorHedgehog and instantly apparent. Half a millimetre is quite noticeable - My Guild (44.5mm) feels and is quite different to my 44.1mm Matons. Could I tell it blindfold? Easily. Can I tell the difference between the Matons (44.1mm) and the Cole Clark (44.0mm)? No. But 44.5 is clearly wider than 44. 

As for 43mm nuts, yes I can play them, but they feel cramped and unpleasant. I can't imagine ever buying one. (I don't much like 44mm if it comes to that, but I've learned to live with it.) 

I play cleaner and better on a nice roomy fretboard. On narrow ones, I struggle to form some chords, especially at speed,  and end up with nasty buzzes and unintended string mutings. 

Given a choice, I'll go for 46mm (a very popular width in Europe) but I'm equally happy with 48mm and don't mind 50mm. 52mm (the wider of the two standard classical widths) I find a bit of a stretch but I can manage. Going the other way I can live with 44mm and quite like it sometimes, but anything under 43mm is the torture zone. I don't go there. 

On the other hand, I'm not particularly sensitive to various other things. For example, neck profile. Anything vaguely normal (i.e., not crazy-thin and not a baseball bat) is fine by me. I might not even notice the difference! But I know players (including plenty of Fretboarders) who reckon it's a hot-button issue. 

BTW, that neck width thing - it becomes less significant as you move up the fretboard. If you seldom play further down the neck than  (say) the 4th or 5th fret, then it probably won't be something you notice. If you play a lot of single and two-note lead lines, again it's not so important. It's when you play down at the pointy end and use all the strings (picking notes out, not just strumming which is non-demanding because no-one notices if a string is muted when it shouldn't be) that it tends to matter more. What about hand size? Well yes, like @guitarjack66 I have fairly large hands. On the other (ahem) hand, I've seem blokes with palms like soup plates happily playing mandolins,  and little children doing better than OK on guitars far too big for them. So I don't know that hand size is all that important.

Soupman

@DartmoorHedgehog ; maybe you don't play as many cowboy chords as me! Lol 

DartmoorHedgehog

Tannin said:

That's a big difference, @DartmoorHedgehog and instantly apparent. Half a millimetre is quite noticeable - My Guild (44.5mm) feels and is quite different to my 44.1mm Matons. Could I tell it blindfold? Easily. Can I tell the difference between the Matons (44.1mm) and the Cole Clark (44.0mm)? No. But 44.5 is clearly wider than 44. .

Again, I'm not in any way calling you wrong when you say you can feel that difference and have a preference.  But honestly, if you gave ME two guitars with 1mm difference in nut width I don't reckon I could tell the difference - and I'm certain I couldn't notice a 0.5mm difference. And I'm kind of pleased about that - I reckon it would drive me mad!

EDIT: Regarding hand size/shape, I do have quite long skinny fingers, so perhaps that helps.

DartmoorHedgehog

Soupman said:

@DartmoorHedgehog ; maybe you don't play as many cowboy chords as me! Lol 

Oh, plenty of those

Tannin

Cheers @DartmoorHedgehog -and I'll make a little bet  - there is something which you notice straight away and are hot button on that I am completely oblivious to. It could be any of two dozen things, but my theory is that everybody is fussy about some damn thing.  

PS: if your answer is really and truly "no I like everything", then do you have a sister and is she married?

DartmoorHedgehog

Tannin said:

Cheers @DartmoorHedgehog -and I'll make a little bet  - there is something which you notice straight away and are hot button on that I am completely oblivious to. It could be any of two dozen things, but my theory is that everybody is fussy about some damn thing.  

PS: if your answer is really and truly "no I like everything", then do you have a sister and is she married?

I'm not sure what annoys me guitar-wise. I've got a few guitars (electric and acoustic), all quite different - thin necks, thick necks, various widths, different body styles, and happily swap between them. What I'm probably most used to (because I play it more) is a Gibson Melody Maker Special, so 24 3/4" scale and apparently 1 11/16" nut width (so just under 43mm). My 6-string acoustic is a parlour style with (I think) 44mm nut, so I swap between those two most often. Obviously there are lots of differences in feel between playing a solid electric with 10s and an acoustic (even a small-bodied one) with 12s, but I honestly don't think I notice the difference in nut width.  It would be interesting to try it as a direct comparison between two more similar guitars though - perhaps when I'm next out at a gig with my acoustic I'll see if I can play somebody else's with a different width nut back to back with mine and see if I prove myself wrong.

Oh, yes I have and yes she is

EDIT: There is something I don't like - necks with very "square" profiles - mostly on ones I've made myself and not carved round enough, but some commercially made necks are a bit that way. That feels horrible.

bertie

DartmoorHedgehog said:

Don't get me wrong @Soupman I didn't intend to imply that anybody who says they can tell the difference is wrong. I'm just genuinely amazed that people can notice such a small difference as 43 vs 44mm nut.  I'm happy that I don't care (or even notice in a lot of cases) - makes things easier for me

in a completely identical neck profile and string spacing at the nut,  it would be marginal  -  but I can certainly tell the difference between my "main"  3   which are 43 (C), 43(soft V) and 44 (flat C)  - the string spacing is 1mm narrower on the 43 C  - and you really notice it when coming from either of the other two  - not so much between the 43 V and 44 flat C !!

DartmoorHedgehog

bertie said:

in a completely identical neck profile and string spacing at the nut,  it would be marginal  -  but I can certainly tell the difference between my "main"  3   which are 43 (C), 43(soft V) and 44 (flat C)  - the string spacing is 1mm narrower on the 43 C  - and you really notice it when coming from either of the other two  - not so much between the 43 V and 44 flat C !!

I think I need to do some experimenting to prove to myself whether what I'm calling "can't tell" is actually more "don't care". Either way small variations don't matter to me, but I'm convinced I couldn't tell 43 and 44mm nuts apart. Perhaps I can but I'm just ignoring it - got me intrigued now.

guitarjack66

Tannin said:

That's a big difference, @DartmoorHedgehog and instantly apparent. Half a millimetre is quite noticeable - My Guild (44.5mm) feels and is quite different to my 44.1mm Matons. Could I tell it blindfold? Easily. Can I tell the difference between the Matons (44.1mm) and the Cole Clark (44.0mm)? No. But 44.5 is clearly wider than 44. 

As for 43mm nuts, yes I can play them, but they feel cramped and unpleasant. I can't imagine ever buying one. (I don't much like 44mm if it comes to that, but I've learned to live with it.) 

I play cleaner and better on a nice roomy fretboard. On narrow ones, I struggle to form some chords, especially at speed,  and end up with nasty buzzes and unintended string mutings. 

Given a choice, I'll go for 46mm (a very popular width in Europe) but I'm equally happy with 48mm and don't mind 50mm. 52mm (the wider of the two standard classical widths) I find a bit of a stretch but I can manage. Going the other way I can live with 44mm and quite like it sometimes, but anything under 43mm is the torture zone. I don't go there. 

On the other hand, I'm not particularly sensitive to various other things. For example, neck profile. Anything vaguely normal (i.e., not crazy-thin and not a baseball bat) is fine by me. I might not even notice the difference! But I know players (including plenty of Fretboarders) who reckon it's a hot-button issue. 

BTW, that neck width thing - it becomes less significant as you move up the fretboard. If you seldom play further down the neck than  (say) the 4th or 5th fret, then it probably won't be something you notice. If you play a lot of single and two-note lead lines, again it's not so important. It's when you play down at the pointy end and use all the strings (picking notes out, not just strumming which is non-demanding because no-one notices if a string is muted when it shouldn't be) that it tends to matter more. What about hand size? Well yes, like @guitarjack66 I have fairly large hands. On the other (ahem) hand, I've seem blokes with palms like soup plates happily playing mandolins,  and little children doing better than OK on guitars far too big for them. So I don't know that hand size is all that important.

Just to clarify,I have smallish to average fingers but the pads seem to be a bit stubby as are my fingers in general.

dazzer22

Tannin said:

The term "string spacing" is usually used to refer to the spacing at the bridge. Technically, of course, it can be used for the spacing at any point, but when people say "string spacing" without qualification they almost always mean at the bridge. Some players have difficulty with unusually narrow or wide string spacing, most are pretty OK with anything in the midrange. Fingerstyle players tend to be the ones preferring wider spacing.

(I used to struggle a bit with average acoustic string spacing and was far more comfortable on my 12 (strung as a 6) whether I used pick or fingers but I have slowly become used to the narrowness of the average steel string guitar and my right hand no longer cares too much - though a little extra space for the fingers is always welcome.)

Reading your post, however, I think you are talking about spacing at the nut. In general, people talk about the pointy end of the guitar in terms of nut width and assume that the strings will be spaced out sensibly and reasonably evenly. (They usually are, so nut width is a perfectly usable proxy for string spacing at the nut.)

Contrary to @dazzer22, nut width is one of the most critical measurements of comfort and playability. Pressed to name the main factors in playability, I'd certainly mention body size (big jumbo vs parlour for example) and scale length, probably not worry about string spacing, and list nut width as second only to a playable action. It's a big deal. People who like little 43mm nuts really struggle on 12-strings and can't cope at all with classicals. People who grew up on classical or 12-string tend to get uncomfortable on 44mm nuts and find those dinky 42.5mm Takamine nuts a right pain. And some people (dazzer seems to be one of them) have the happy knack of being comfortable on anything from a mandolin (29mm) to a classical (52mm).

(As an aside, every player I have ever met has a few things he or she is fussy about, and a lot of other things that they are flexible on. Some players hate big guitars like jumbos and only feel comfortable on smaller instruments. Some hate skinny necks, some love 'em. Some like wide necks, some narrow ones, some like a C profile, some a V, some don't care. Some like long scales, some like short scales, some swing either way. Some hate humbuckers, some hate tremolo arms. And so on. And for every player that hates some particular thing, there is another player who loves it, and another three who don't care either way. )

Your HB probably has a 43mm nut, possibly even 42.5mm - these sizes are still common in Japanese and some Chinese guitars, though they have gone out of fashion elsewhere. That is very tight so fair enough if you are not comfortable on it. Your Sigma is probably 44.5mm - a middle-of-the-road width which nearly all players can get by on. 

I was referring to the more standard string spacing as the OP didn't give any measurements, I think the OP is having more trouble with his guitar technique as he blames his large finger ends, i am not saying people don't have preferences on what they like and don't but i don't see string spacing as a limitation, If he is having trouble playing his guitar on one of the standard string spacing or nut widths  then i have to question his playing ability first , Maybe i am the only one but i have never worried about string spacing or nut width when buying a guitar.

ToneControl

For acoustics I prefer 47mm, even 48mm
I always played a bit of classical, and like modal tunings with high-voiced chords with some open strings

I can play 43mm, 44mm acoustics, but not for pieces like the Rain Song

For electrics, I can play any nut width

I tried a narrower nut nylon crossover, and hated it

guitarjack66

dazzer22 said:

Tannin said:

The term "string spacing" is usually used to refer to the spacing at the bridge. Technically, of course, it can be used for the spacing at any point, but when people say "string spacing" without qualification they almost always mean at the bridge. Some players have difficulty with unusually narrow or wide string spacing, most are pretty OK with anything in the midrange. Fingerstyle players tend to be the ones preferring wider spacing.

(I used to struggle a bit with average acoustic string spacing and was far more comfortable on my 12 (strung as a 6) whether I used pick or fingers but I have slowly become used to the narrowness of the average steel string guitar and my right hand no longer cares too much - though a little extra space for the fingers is always welcome.)

Reading your post, however, I think you are talking about spacing at the nut. In general, people talk about the pointy end of the guitar in terms of nut width and assume that the strings will be spaced out sensibly and reasonably evenly. (They usually are, so nut width is a perfectly usable proxy for string spacing at the nut.)

Contrary to @dazzer22, nut width is one of the most critical measurements of comfort and playability. Pressed to name the main factors in playability, I'd certainly mention body size (big jumbo vs parlour for example) and scale length, probably not worry about string spacing, and list nut width as second only to a playable action. It's a big deal. People who like little 43mm nuts really struggle on 12-strings and can't cope at all with classicals. People who grew up on classical or 12-string tend to get uncomfortable on 44mm nuts and find those dinky 42.5mm Takamine nuts a right pain. And some people (dazzer seems to be one of them) have the happy knack of being comfortable on anything from a mandolin (29mm) to a classical (52mm).

(As an aside, every player I have ever met has a few things he or she is fussy about, and a lot of other things that they are flexible on. Some players hate big guitars like jumbos and only feel comfortable on smaller instruments. Some hate skinny necks, some love 'em. Some like wide necks, some narrow ones, some like a C profile, some a V, some don't care. Some like long scales, some like short scales, some swing either way. Some hate humbuckers, some hate tremolo arms. And so on. And for every player that hates some particular thing, there is another player who loves it, and another three who don't care either way. )

Your HB probably has a 43mm nut, possibly even 42.5mm - these sizes are still common in Japanese and some Chinese guitars, though they have gone out of fashion elsewhere. That is very tight so fair enough if you are not comfortable on it. Your Sigma is probably 44.5mm - a middle-of-the-road width which nearly all players can get by on. 

I was referring to the more standard string spacing as the OP didn't give any measurements, I think the OP is having more trouble with his guitar technique as he blames his large finger ends, i am not saying people don't have preferences on what they like and don't but i don't see string spacing as a limitation, If he is having trouble playing his guitar on one of the standard string spacing or nut widths  then i have to question his playing ability first , Maybe i am the only one but i have never worried about string spacing or nut width when buying a guitar.

I think this is a bit unfair as you dont know me at all. But I have three guitars,a folk size,a jumbo and a Sigma. I am not stupid as I can tell that my Sigma has a wider string spacing than the other two without a question of a doubt. I did not mention the nut myself at all but if a nut is wider then they could easily cut the string spacings in it further apart,no? I'd like to actually measure it but i simply havent got an accurate tool for the job. And while Ive only been playing about three years Ive played around 5-6 days a week during that time so have an idea that I am not talking through my hat. I'm glad that you have no problem with these things but I can tell you this is not a figment of my imagination.