String Spacing

malcolmkindness

guitarjack66 said:

dazzer22 said:

Tannin said:

The term "string spacing" is usually used to refer to the spacing at the bridge. Technically, of course, it can be used for the spacing at any point, but when people say "string spacing" without qualification they almost always mean at the bridge. Some players have difficulty with unusually narrow or wide string spacing, most are pretty OK with anything in the midrange. Fingerstyle players tend to be the ones preferring wider spacing.

(I used to struggle a bit with average acoustic string spacing and was far more comfortable on my 12 (strung as a 6) whether I used pick or fingers but I have slowly become used to the narrowness of the average steel string guitar and my right hand no longer cares too much - though a little extra space for the fingers is always welcome.)

Reading your post, however, I think you are talking about spacing at the nut. In general, people talk about the pointy end of the guitar in terms of nut width and assume that the strings will be spaced out sensibly and reasonably evenly. (They usually are, so nut width is a perfectly usable proxy for string spacing at the nut.)

Contrary to @dazzer22, nut width is one of the most critical measurements of comfort and playability. Pressed to name the main factors in playability, I'd certainly mention body size (big jumbo vs parlour for example) and scale length, probably not worry about string spacing, and list nut width as second only to a playable action. It's a big deal. People who like little 43mm nuts really struggle on 12-strings and can't cope at all with classicals. People who grew up on classical or 12-string tend to get uncomfortable on 44mm nuts and find those dinky 42.5mm Takamine nuts a right pain. And some people (dazzer seems to be one of them) have the happy knack of being comfortable on anything from a mandolin (29mm) to a classical (52mm).

(As an aside, every player I have ever met has a few things he or she is fussy about, and a lot of other things that they are flexible on. Some players hate big guitars like jumbos and only feel comfortable on smaller instruments. Some hate skinny necks, some love 'em. Some like wide necks, some narrow ones, some like a C profile, some a V, some don't care. Some like long scales, some like short scales, some swing either way. Some hate humbuckers, some hate tremolo arms. And so on. And for every player that hates some particular thing, there is another player who loves it, and another three who don't care either way. )

Your HB probably has a 43mm nut, possibly even 42.5mm - these sizes are still common in Japanese and some Chinese guitars, though they have gone out of fashion elsewhere. That is very tight so fair enough if you are not comfortable on it. Your Sigma is probably 44.5mm - a middle-of-the-road width which nearly all players can get by on. 

I was referring to the more standard string spacing as the OP didn't give any measurements, I think the OP is having more trouble with his guitar technique as he blames his large finger ends, i am not saying people don't have preferences on what they like and don't but i don't see string spacing as a limitation, If he is having trouble playing his guitar on one of the standard string spacing or nut widths  then i have to question his playing ability first , Maybe i am the only one but i have never worried about string spacing or nut width when buying a guitar.

I think this is a bit unfair as you dont know me at all. But I have three guitars,a folk size,a jumbo and a Sigma. I am not stupid as I can tell that my Sigma has a wider string spacing than the other two without a question of a doubt. I did not mention the nut myself at all but if a nut is wider then they could easily cut the string spacings in it further apart,no? I'd like to actually measure it but i simply havent got an accurate tool for the job. And while Ive only been playing about three years Ive played around 5-6 days a week during that time so have an idea that I am not talking through my hat. I'm glad that you have no problem with these things but I can tell you this is not a figment of my imagination.

I agree, it's a bit unfair, I have been playing for almost 60 years and I'm very fussy about my string spacing. I can play guitars with a different string spacing, but I notice the tiniest difference and I would never buy one that wasn't at least very close to my ideal spec.

guitarjack66

malcolmkindness said:

guitarjack66 said:

dazzer22 said:

Tannin said:

The term "string spacing" is usually used to refer to the spacing at the bridge. Technically, of course, it can be used for the spacing at any point, but when people say "string spacing" without qualification they almost always mean at the bridge. Some players have difficulty with unusually narrow or wide string spacing, most are pretty OK with anything in the midrange. Fingerstyle players tend to be the ones preferring wider spacing.

(I used to struggle a bit with average acoustic string spacing and was far more comfortable on my 12 (strung as a 6) whether I used pick or fingers but I have slowly become used to the narrowness of the average steel string guitar and my right hand no longer cares too much - though a little extra space for the fingers is always welcome.)

Reading your post, however, I think you are talking about spacing at the nut. In general, people talk about the pointy end of the guitar in terms of nut width and assume that the strings will be spaced out sensibly and reasonably evenly. (They usually are, so nut width is a perfectly usable proxy for string spacing at the nut.)

Contrary to @dazzer22, nut width is one of the most critical measurements of comfort and playability. Pressed to name the main factors in playability, I'd certainly mention body size (big jumbo vs parlour for example) and scale length, probably not worry about string spacing, and list nut width as second only to a playable action. It's a big deal. People who like little 43mm nuts really struggle on 12-strings and can't cope at all with classicals. People who grew up on classical or 12-string tend to get uncomfortable on 44mm nuts and find those dinky 42.5mm Takamine nuts a right pain. And some people (dazzer seems to be one of them) have the happy knack of being comfortable on anything from a mandolin (29mm) to a classical (52mm).

(As an aside, every player I have ever met has a few things he or she is fussy about, and a lot of other things that they are flexible on. Some players hate big guitars like jumbos and only feel comfortable on smaller instruments. Some hate skinny necks, some love 'em. Some like wide necks, some narrow ones, some like a C profile, some a V, some don't care. Some like long scales, some like short scales, some swing either way. Some hate humbuckers, some hate tremolo arms. And so on. And for every player that hates some particular thing, there is another player who loves it, and another three who don't care either way. )

Your HB probably has a 43mm nut, possibly even 42.5mm - these sizes are still common in Japanese and some Chinese guitars, though they have gone out of fashion elsewhere. That is very tight so fair enough if you are not comfortable on it. Your Sigma is probably 44.5mm - a middle-of-the-road width which nearly all players can get by on. 

I was referring to the more standard string spacing as the OP didn't give any measurements, I think the OP is having more trouble with his guitar technique as he blames his large finger ends, i am not saying people don't have preferences on what they like and don't but i don't see string spacing as a limitation, If he is having trouble playing his guitar on one of the standard string spacing or nut widths  then i have to question his playing ability first , Maybe i am the only one but i have never worried about string spacing or nut width when buying a guitar.

I think this is a bit unfair as you dont know me at all. But I have three guitars,a folk size,a jumbo and a Sigma. I am not stupid as I can tell that my Sigma has a wider string spacing than the other two without a question of a doubt. I did not mention the nut myself at all but if a nut is wider then they could easily cut the string spacings in it further apart,no? I'd like to actually measure it but i simply havent got an accurate tool for the job. And while Ive only been playing about three years Ive played around 5-6 days a week during that time so have an idea that I am not talking through my hat. I'm glad that you have no problem with these things but I can tell you this is not a figment of my imagination.

I agree, it's a bit unfair, I have been playing for almost 60 years and I'm very fussy about my string spacing. I can play guitars with a different string spacing, but I notice the tiniest difference and I would never buy one that wasn't at least very close to my ideal spec.

Thank you for understanding. I realise we all have our own traits and characteristics regarding a guitar and I'd have thought those of us who play acoustics almost exclusively are possibly a little bit more sensitive to different aspects of our instruments.

bertie

off the cuff comment

do you think its people that have been playing "a long time"   and play more by muscle memory,  that suffer with different spacings,  than those that "have to concentrate" harder on what they're doing with their fretting hand ?

not a "better or worse" thing,   just a thought   

guitarjack66

bertie said:

off the cuff comment

do you think its people that have been playing "a long time"   and play more by muscle memory,  that suffer with different spacings,  than those that "have to concentrate" harder on what they're doing with their fretting hand ?

not a "better or worse" thing,   just a thought   

Not sure I quite understand but I think you mean that those of us very much still in the learning curve may be looking for excuses for not improving enough quickly enough? I think this is a fair point if you are playing one guitar regularly rather than a couple or more.
I have also discovered that my smaller HB appears to have slight baseball bat design and appears( have no tools to measure accurately) but will emphasise 'appears' to have a baseball bat neck.

bertie

guitarjack66 said:

Not sure I quite understand but I think you mean that those of us very much still in the learning curve may be looking for excuses for not improving enough quickly enough? 

nope, not at all.

when you've been playing a long time,   you play without thinking  -  your hands/fingers just know exactly where to go..........based on 1000000s  of previous times...........your fingers are accurate cos they "know" where the strings are going to be ,  lazyness if you like - if that changes even slightly,  you can fluff/mute notes.

For chaps learning, and having to think/concentrate more - the mere act of concentration  assists in "changes" in finger placement


its a thought,  not a solid basis for argument  

Mellish

I think what @bertie is throwing into the mix is that experienced players with many years behind them may be more aware of slight differences in string spacing/nut width. 

But that's just MY take on it  

bertie

Mellish said:

I think what @bertie is throwing into the mix is that experienced players with many years behind them may be more aware of slight differences in string spacing/nut width. 

But that's just MY take on it  

no it's not what Im saying  -   see my previous post  

Mellish

^^^ gotcha  

drofluf

bertie said:

off the cuff comment

do you think its people that have been playing "a long time"   and play more by muscle memory,  that suffer with different spacings,  than those that "have to concentrate" harder on what they're doing with their fretting hand ?

not a "better or worse" thing,   just a thought   

Think you might have a point; I’m at the stage where I have to look at my fingers some of the time so perhaps find it easier to adapt 

dazzer22

malcolmkindness said:

guitarjack66 said:

dazzer22 said:

Tannin said:

The term "string spacing" is usually used to refer to the spacing at the bridge. Technically, of course, it can be used for the spacing at any point, but when people say "string spacing" without qualification they almost always mean at the bridge. Some players have difficulty with unusually narrow or wide string spacing, most are pretty OK with anything in the midrange. Fingerstyle players tend to be the ones preferring wider spacing.

(I used to struggle a bit with average acoustic string spacing and was far more comfortable on my 12 (strung as a 6) whether I used pick or fingers but I have slowly become used to the narrowness of the average steel string guitar and my right hand no longer cares too much - though a little extra space for the fingers is always welcome.)

Reading your post, however, I think you are talking about spacing at the nut. In general, people talk about the pointy end of the guitar in terms of nut width and assume that the strings will be spaced out sensibly and reasonably evenly. (They usually are, so nut width is a perfectly usable proxy for string spacing at the nut.)

Contrary to @dazzer22, nut width is one of the most critical measurements of comfort and playability. Pressed to name the main factors in playability, I'd certainly mention body size (big jumbo vs parlour for example) and scale length, probably not worry about string spacing, and list nut width as second only to a playable action. It's a big deal. People who like little 43mm nuts really struggle on 12-strings and can't cope at all with classicals. People who grew up on classical or 12-string tend to get uncomfortable on 44mm nuts and find those dinky 42.5mm Takamine nuts a right pain. And some people (dazzer seems to be one of them) have the happy knack of being comfortable on anything from a mandolin (29mm) to a classical (52mm).

(As an aside, every player I have ever met has a few things he or she is fussy about, and a lot of other things that they are flexible on. Some players hate big guitars like jumbos and only feel comfortable on smaller instruments. Some hate skinny necks, some love 'em. Some like wide necks, some narrow ones, some like a C profile, some a V, some don't care. Some like long scales, some like short scales, some swing either way. Some hate humbuckers, some hate tremolo arms. And so on. And for every player that hates some particular thing, there is another player who loves it, and another three who don't care either way. )

Your HB probably has a 43mm nut, possibly even 42.5mm - these sizes are still common in Japanese and some Chinese guitars, though they have gone out of fashion elsewhere. That is very tight so fair enough if you are not comfortable on it. Your Sigma is probably 44.5mm - a middle-of-the-road width which nearly all players can get by on. 

I was referring to the more standard string spacing as the OP didn't give any measurements, I think the OP is having more trouble with his guitar technique as he blames his large finger ends, i am not saying people don't have preferences on what they like and don't but i don't see string spacing as a limitation, If he is having trouble playing his guitar on one of the standard string spacing or nut widths  then i have to question his playing ability first , Maybe i am the only one but i have never worried about string spacing or nut width when buying a guitar.

I think this is a bit unfair as you dont know me at all. But I have three guitars,a folk size,a jumbo and a Sigma. I am not stupid as I can tell that my Sigma has a wider string spacing than the other two without a question of a doubt. I did not mention the nut myself at all but if a nut is wider then they could easily cut the string spacings in it further apart,no? I'd like to actually measure it but i simply havent got an accurate tool for the job. And while Ive only been playing about three years Ive played around 5-6 days a week during that time so have an idea that I am not talking through my hat. I'm glad that you have no problem with these things but I can tell you this is not a figment of my imagination.

I agree, it's a bit unfair, I have been playing for almost 60 years and I'm very fussy about my string spacing. I can play guitars with a different string spacing, but I notice the tiniest difference and I would never buy one that wasn't at least very close to my ideal spec.

sorry if i came across some what in a negative way but 3 years playing guitar is not that long, ok first off i want to say this really is probably a moot point if he's only going to play acoustic guitars just find out with a wider string spacing your happy with, I started out playing acoustic guitars i have two now, one has a wider string spacing i actually prefer it when  finger picking, I have tried to think long and hard to why specs don't bother me like string spacing , neck thickness , 22 frets or 24 frets ,jumbo frets , when i did get my first electric guitar it had a thick neck quite heavy Epip les Paul , now back then i couldn't have imagined playing a different type of guitar myself i use to say it fitted like a glove and i was used to them specs, one day i got a different  guitar mainly because i loved the look of it and it sounded great but it was completely different, like  ultra thin neck -narrower string spacing - 24 frets , jumbo frets , i picked up that guitar and it felt alien to me it put me off playing it, but  i stopped playing the les paul and spent all my time playing that guitar,  now i can pick it up and it feels great in my hands to play i can also still pick the les paul  and it still feels great , yes there is a difference but i am like desensitized to it now, if i buy a new guitar i generally get something different,  i also  have a HB with a thick neck -  tremolo =  narrow string spacing  it didn't take much getting use to this time, the point is there is know right or wrong i know people that have one guitar only and never touch anything else or keep to the same specs,  but i see this as more of  personal choice  rather than being  restricted or limited .

bertie

drofluf said:

Think you might have a point; I’m at the stage where I have to look at my fingers some of the time so perhaps find it easier to adapt 

Im just lazy

guitarjack66

bertie said:

guitarjack66 said:

Not sure I quite understand but I think you mean that those of us very much still in the learning curve may be looking for excuses for not improving enough quickly enough? 

nope, not at all.

when you've been playing a long time,   you play without thinking  -  your hands/fingers just know exactly where to go..........based on 1000000s  of previous times...........your fingers are accurate cos they "know" where the strings are going to be ,  lazyness if you like - if that changes even slightly,  you can fluff/mute notes.

For chaps learning, and having to think/concentrate more - the mere act of concentration  assists in "changes" in finger placement


its a thought,  not a solid basis for argument

 Fair enough. I am the first to admit that I still regard myself as a beginner  after three years,albeit a more experienced one. I am guessing it could be argued that wider string spacing is a product of a wider nut? And I also suppose neck shape can influence a feel of wide or narrow too.