Live gig EQ frustration

Hoof

Definitely sounds like the wrong approach with PA. If you're playing pubs then there's no need to be putting backline through the PA. Vocals and bass drum (maybe some bass guitar if his amp isn't great) only. Guitar does not need a volume boost or reinforcement at a pub gig. Nor does snare/toms/cymbals.

Sounds like the bassist see's the PA as his domain. If he doesn't know what he's doing (and 30 mins to fix feedback that wasn't there in the first set proves this) then that is a problem that can only be solved with some frank chats and simplifying things.

You definitely need monitors. 2 at the front and 1 side fill for the drummer. Vocals only in these.

Again. Simplify. A fully mic'd set up requires a more sophisticated PA and an engineer who knows that he's doing to both set it up and man the desk during the performance.

slacker

For pub gigs you only need vocals through a pa and some monitors. Imho. For larger gigs get a sound engineer. 

I would leave before you are kicked out. A flounce is therapeutic.

fastonebaz

In my band we put vocals and kick through the pa and also a little bit of guitar for extra sound spread, otherwise it's all backline and apart from the singers monitor wedge we have no iems or other monitors. We can all hear the singer fine and drummer can hear everything OK. We play loud rock in pub venues. Maybe with a 4 piece it's easier to hear each instrument clearly.?   

EricTheWeary

I’m slightly stuck on the drummer not wanting a monitor, it’s something that drummers I’ve played with have been obsessive about having. I’m now imagining someone bashing away at the back and paying no attention to the song. Maybe not. 

Obviously you all need to agree on what the set up should be and have a ‘dress rehearsal’ in a village hall as Roland said. If you can’t borrow a sound engineer borrow someone with trusted ears to sit out front. 

FarleyUK

EricTheWeary said:

I’m slightly stuck on the drummer not wanting a monitor, it’s something that drummers I’ve played with have been obsessive about having. I’m now imagining someone bashing away at the back and paying no attention to the song. Maybe not. 

Obviously you all need to agree on what the set up should be and have a ‘dress rehearsal’ in a village hall as Roland said. If you can’t borrow a sound engineer borrow someone with trusted ears to sit out front. 

I know, right?

He refuses to use a wedge monitor as he doesn't like them, and refuses to use IEMs as he feels it disconnects him from what he's playing. He's a good drummer, but he's pretty bloody difficult.

Musicwolf

FarleyUK said:

He's a good drummer, but he's pretty bloody difficult.

Maybe if you are Ginger Baker you can be a good drummer and 'difficult' but for a pub band to be classed as 'good' requires you to be not 'difficult'.  It's hard enough holding a band together / maintaining momentum with reasonable people but when everyone else has to work around one person it's a bloody nightmare.

When you say that he refuses a monitor does he actually refuse to use one or is he being asked to buy one and that's why he's putting up obstacles?

ElectricXII

Our band played a 100 seater club with dance floor on Saturday night. We had vocals and kick in the FOH and two wedges, one for the singer, and one for me for my acoustic and BV. Next time we play this venue we'll be in the bigger, 200 seat room, and we might use a bigger PA, and mic the guitar amps, DI the bass, etc. However the smaller setup would probably still cut it.

It sounds like you need to lose your bass player and drummer!

fretmeister

slacker said:

For pub gigs you only need vocals through a pa and some monitors. Imho. For larger gigs get a sound engineer. 

I would leave before you are kicked out. A flounce is therapeutic.

I always want the kick and the high hat in the PA as well. Maybe that's a bassists' POV, but I find it very useful.

Good for the mix too - the acoustic sound of the kick can be damped down with cushions etc and the PA can HPF any excessive low end then. Far too many excessive bass mixes in small gigs these days.

stickyfiddle

I much prefer a lower stage volume and everything in the PA, personally - that's especially true of my own amp, which I really like to hear from in front of me rather than behind. I can get by without all the drums in monitors but I generally want kick, snare and hats as a minimum unless completely impossible - especially when I'm playing bass. At our first gig back in Nov I missed a cue and fucked up the intro of the last song because I could hear the drums.

I always find it odd that musicians seem happy to accept massive compromises when it comes to hearing themselves play. I don't know how folks cope. 

CaseOfAce

Not saying that's the case here..
but worth considering...

What's wrong with this picture? - 

Guitarist walks into the venue with his guitar bag, modeller du jour and IEMs in a carry case.
Takes out guitar, plugs lead into rack unit and lead out to mixer. Goes to bar.

Meanwhile drummer had arrived at the venue an hour earlier - 3 trips back and forth to car carrying cases and then setting up.
Drummer asks guitarist. err.. how I am I going to hear your guitar on stage.?
Guitarist responds "Err dunno - you could maybe fork out and bring your own monitor or buy yourself a pair of IEMs?"

Drummer asks same question to singer who's also breezed in arrived late at venue and plugged their IEMs in and set up their mic stand - how am I going to hear your vocals at the back here?
Singer responds "Err.. dunno..." etc...

Drummer not happy.

FarleyUK

CaseOfAce said:

Not saying that's the case here..
but worth considering...

What's wrong with this picture? - 

Guitarist walks into the venue with his guitar bag, modeller du jour and IEMs in a carry case.
Takes out guitar, plugs lead into rack unit and lead out to mixer. Goes to bar.

Meanwhile drummer had arrived at the venue an hour earlier - 3 trips back and forth to car carrying cases and then setting up.
Drummer asks guitarist. err.. how I am I going to hear your guitar on stage.?
Guitarist responds "Err dunno - you could maybe fork out and bring your own monitor or buy yourself a pair of IEMs?"

Drummer asks same question to singer who's also breezed in arrived late at venue and plugged their IEMs in and set up their mic stand - how am I going to hear your vocals at the back here?
Singer responds "Err.. dunno..." etc...

Drummer not happy.

I'm assuming that's not a passive-aggressive barb....

But to elaborate, I have discussed monitoring with the drummer and bassist, multiple times. I have explained the options, to which the drummer has flat out refused to use any of them. Why should he be relying on me bringing my cabs when I don't need them due to going through the PA? Same with the vocals; he needs a monitoring solution, not just relying on hearing my guitar.

Also - this is the same drummer that almost got into a punch up with a sound engineer friend of mine (see my previous post). So it's not like he's open to other people suggesting things (likewise the bass player).

Roland

FarleyUK said:

… this is the same drummer that almost got into a punch up with a sound engineer friend of mine (see my previous post). So it's not like he's open to other people suggesting things (likewise the bass player).

Musicwolf said:

…  It's hard enough holding a band together / maintaining momentum with reasonable people but when everyone else has to work around one person it's a bloody nightmare…

This line-up isn’t going to work, however good these two are as players. A band is a team, and you can’t carry two people in a four piece. Either they leave or you do.

Is the singer worth the effort of putting together a different rhythm section?

FarleyUK

Roland said:

FarleyUK said:

… this is the same drummer that almost got into a punch up with a sound engineer friend of mine (see my previous post). So it's not like he's open to other people suggesting things (likewise the bass player).

Musicwolf said:

…  It's hard enough holding a band together / maintaining momentum with reasonable people but when everyone else has to work around one person it's a bloody nightmare…

This line-up isn’t going to work, however good these two are as players. A band is a team, and you can’t carry two people in a four piece. Either they leave or you do.

Is the singer worth the effort of putting together a different rhythm section?

Well, she has potential - but her husband is a complete Yoko Ono. Massive pain in the arse, thinking he's part of the band and sounding like he's our manager to everyone (he even turned up at the gig with a 'CREW' t shirt on.... I very nearly told him to sort out the PA issues then).

Reading these back, I think I've answered my own questions about the group and what to do.....!

fretmeister

FarleyUK said:

Roland said:

FarleyUK said:

… this is the same drummer that almost got into a punch up with a sound engineer friend of mine (see my previous post). So it's not like he's open to other people suggesting things (likewise the bass player).

Musicwolf said:

…  It's hard enough holding a band together / maintaining momentum with reasonable people but when everyone else has to work around one person it's a bloody nightmare…

This line-up isn’t going to work, however good these two are as players. A band is a team, and you can’t carry two people in a four piece. Either they leave or you do.

Is the singer worth the effort of putting together a different rhythm section?

Well, she has potential - but her husband is a complete Yoko Ono. Massive pain in the arse, thinking he's part of the band and sounding like he's our manager to everyone (he even turned up at the gig with a 'CREW' t shirt on.... I very nearly told him to sort out the PA issues then).

Reading these back, I think I've answered my own questions about the group and what to do.....!

Shag the singer so Yoko never comes again?

p90fool

Our singers use IEMs and our drummer has one of those little Behringer monitors on a mic stand right next to her with vocals and a bit of guitar in it. 

We have an entirely vocal-only PA and a separate pair of JBL Eon-1s for a touch of guitar spread plus kick drum and one drum overhead. 

It's simple, everyone can hear pretty well everything, and as the backline carries most of the weight it's pretty much self mixing. 

For big gigs it's someone else's problem, but apart from the odd broken mic cable we never have PA dramas, we just play. 

FarleyUK

fretmeister said:

FarleyUK said:

Roland said:

FarleyUK said:

… this is the same drummer that almost got into a punch up with a sound engineer friend of mine (see my previous post). So it's not like he's open to other people suggesting things (likewise the bass player).

Musicwolf said:

…  It's hard enough holding a band together / maintaining momentum with reasonable people but when everyone else has to work around one person it's a bloody nightmare…

This line-up isn’t going to work, however good these two are as players. A band is a team, and you can’t carry two people in a four piece. Either they leave or you do.

Is the singer worth the effort of putting together a different rhythm section?

Well, she has potential - but her husband is a complete Yoko Ono. Massive pain in the arse, thinking he's part of the band and sounding like he's our manager to everyone (he even turned up at the gig with a 'CREW' t shirt on.... I very nearly told him to sort out the PA issues then).

Reading these back, I think I've answered my own questions about the group and what to do.....!

Shag the singer so Yoko never comes again?

I think she’d break me…. And I’m 6ft 5…!

PolarityMan

Wait, if the drummer has no monitoring then how are the drums in time with the dubstep synths?

FarleyUK

Quick update - apparently it's my fault as somehow I magically turned up my output which must have caused all the feedback issues.

Despite my guitar volume being on 0 while these feedback issues happened.

And despite me not adjusting anything at all.

And despite us all seeing the bassist fiddling with the mixer during the break.

Hoof

FarleyUK said:

EricTheWeary said:

I’m slightly stuck on the drummer not wanting a monitor, it’s something that drummers I’ve played with have been obsessive about having. I’m now imagining someone bashing away at the back and paying no attention to the song. Maybe not. 

Obviously you all need to agree on what the set up should be and have a ‘dress rehearsal’ in a village hall as Roland said. If you can’t borrow a sound engineer borrow someone with trusted ears to sit out front. 

I know, right?

He refuses to use a wedge monitor as he doesn't like them, and refuses to use IEMs as he feels it disconnects him from what he's playing. He's a good drummer, but he's pretty bloody difficult.

If he knows the songs perfectly keeps good time and can hear things well enough for intro cues etc than I wouldn't see this as a huge problem.

EDIT: On reading the rest of the thread, just quit the band. It sound like they're all bellends (apart from the singer, but she brings one with her) and your gear choices don't fit in with their approach. It's just not going to work out.

Roland

FarleyUK said:

… apparently it's my fault ...