Martin SC-13e?

Phil_C

Hello guys

I'm close to purchasing one of these Martin SC-13e's - Would you recommend one? I do like the access to the higher frets but it's not essential. I've watched plenty of youtube demos, they sound great but is there anything negative I should know?

I was also looking at second hand Gibsons, SJ-200's to be exact. Haven't explored the other realms of possibilities yet. I like the natural fishman pickup output on the demos, without that overly piezo sound. I delve between finger picking and strumming also, so not strictly one style.

Cheers,

Phil.

goldtop

Just joining in because I wonder about this, too. There is (or was) one for sale here in the Classifieds. If I hadn't just bought a 3rd acoustic, I'd have been very tempted to go and try it out. I've got a suspicion that it won't be as loud as a dread/jumbo. 

The only negative that I've read is that the special shimming system for the bolt-on neck is not a thing that your local luthier can do. It needs a Martin dealer, and (supposedly) one that has been trained in the specific details.

Phil_C

Yes I was also wondering about the shimming system. I suppose your average tech may possibly be at a loss with regards to how to work it? Which is a bit of a bummer. Unless you want to trust your local luthier with having a go! 

I'm open to other acoustic suggestions to be fair, up the the 2k range but this Martin did catch my eye.

Modmins, could you please move this to the acoustic section? Thank you 

ICBM

One of the regulars at the acoustic jam night I go to has one of these - it's by far the best-sounding guitar there, really nice. It's easily loud enough - maybe not quite up there with a Dread, but about the same as a 000/OM. I've only heard it unplugged so I can't comment on the amplified sound.

It also looks much less odd when you see it in the room held in the playing position, than it does vertical against a plain background in most of the catalogue/dealer pics.

(You can move the thread to the acoustic section yourself if you click on the little wheel symbol at the top right and select edit.)

Phil_C

ICBM said:

One of the regulars at the acoustic jam night I go to has one of these - it's by far the best-sounding guitar there, really nice. It's easily loud enough - maybe not quite up there with a Dread, but about the same as a 000/OM. I've only heard it unplugged so I can't comment on the amplified sound.

It also looks much less odd when you see it in the room held in the playing position, than it does vertical against a plain background in most of the catalogue/dealer pics.

(You can move the thread to the acoustic section yourself if you click on the little wheel symbol at the top right and select edit.)

Thanks of the reply mate. I've moved it to acoustics, wasn't aware I could sort it myself

I plan to do a lot of recording with it but I think it may be a balance between mic'd up and plugged in to see which sounds better to suit what I'm outputting

It does possess that natural Martin sound too. I'm not really too bothered about dread loudness but I can imagine you are correct with it being quite short of the output of one of those!

Epsilon

I really like the design, but unless I'm mistaken it's laminate back and sides. £1700 is a lot to spend and not get all solid wood.

Tannin

I love their Magnificently Bullshit® term for a bolt-on neck: "Sure Align® Linear Dovetail Neck Joint". What a load of cobblers. And this business of pretending that only Martin and Martin-trained dealers can adjust a neck shim ... that's got balls on it.

Epsilon said:

I really like the design, but unless I'm mistaken it's laminate back and sides. £1700 is a lot to spend and not get all solid wood.

And here is the key point. They are way over priced. £1500-£1700 for a plywood guitar? On what planet is that reasonable?

Browsing Guitar Guitar just now, for the same money or less you can buy a Furch Blue (various models), Furch Green (several models), Taylor 314ce, Martin 000-15M or 00-15M or D-15M, Maton SRS-60C or Performer, Cole Clark FL1, FL 2, Angel 1, and Angel 2. Also, a used Avalon A12, used Maestro Traditional OM, ex-demo Taylor American Dream,  used Lakewood, two different used Larrivvees. 

All of those just mentioned are high-quality instruments in all solid wood (which the Martin is not), made in First World high-wage countries (which the Martin is not).

You can do better for the same money. Much better.

Phil_C

Tannin said:

I love their Magnificently Bullshit® term for a bolt-on neck: "Sure Align® Linear Dovetail Neck Joint". What a load of cobblers. And this business of pretending that only Martin and Martin-trained dealers can adjust a neck shim ... that's got balls on it.

Epsilon said:

I really like the design, but unless I'm mistaken it's laminate back and sides. £1700 is a lot to spend and not get all solid wood.

And here is the key point. They are way over priced. £1500-£1700 for a plywood guitar? On what planet is that reasonable?

Browsing Guitar Guitar just now, for the same money or less you can buy a Furch Blue (various models), Furch Green (several models), Taylor 314ce, Martin 000-15M or 00-15M or D-15M, Maton SRS-60C or Performer, Cole Clark FL1, FL 2, Angel 1, and Angel 2. Also, a used Avalon A12, used Maestro Traditional OM, ex-demo Taylor American Dream,  used Lakewood, two different used Larrivvees. 

All of those just mentioned are high-quality instruments in all solid wood (which the Martin is not), made in First World high-wage countries (which the Martin is not).

You can do better for the same money. Much better.

Funnily enough there's a pre-owned Maton EBG808 Michael Fix for £1799! I do like the Matons.

Tannin

One of the few Maton models I haven't played @Phil_C, and well into the mid-range of their line-up where the best ones mostly live  - the Artist, the TEs, the Australians, all good 'uns. I should mention the Nashville too but I'n not so fond of that one (just a matter of taste, it's a perfectly decent guitar, I just don't care for the twang, not the sunburst finish. I have every reason to expect that the Michael Fix would be another beauty.

I'm a huge fan of Queensland Maple back and sides. QM doesn't have the lovely and obvious in-your-face distinctive trademark tone of something like rosewood or Blackwood; instead it simply provides a well-rounded, all-purpose sound which you can do as you like with. It is, in a word, biddable. It doesn't say "I sound like this, do you like me?" it says "what sort of sound do you want today?"

BTW, in my previous comment I neglected to say that I applaud Martin's work with the SC-13. It is really good to see them thinking outside the box and actually doing something they were not doing in 1935. Time moves on, technology advances, and good on Martin for recognising that. 

But I wouldn't buy one, they are way too dear. 

Mellish

I'm a big fan of Martin.

The model in question is built at their Mexico factory.....
I have to say I'd want all solid if I was spending £1,700. 

 

Gandalph

Also a Martin fan but as others have said £1700
is way too much for laminate back and sides. 

1k absolute tops imo. 

You could get a lot more guitar for your money if
you look at the used market. 

ICBM

I think you need to open your minds.

If it sounds better from across the room than a D-18, which is overpriced?

Tannin

I'd have the D-18 every single time. Great guitars. 

And unless I seriously miss my guess, those all-solid, no-corners-cut guitars from the likes of Furch, Maton, and Taylor will eat it alive. 

(I haven't played one, but I've played other "cheap" Martins and come away very unimpressed.)

PS: Of the American majors, the only one which has the knack of making "cheap" guitars (actually still expensive for what they are, but cheaper than the mainstream models) is Taylor. 

goldtop

I agree about the laminated wood being an unpleasant surprise. When I first posted about the SC13e, I also wondered if Martin was being very careful not to put this to close to their 'normal' ranges - just in case the market reacted so badly against it. Martin buyers seem a fairly conservative lot AFAICT from lurking on the acoustic guitar forums.

But ISTR that the same body style is now available in a high-end US-built all-solid version, too. If so, perhaps it will start to filter up and down the range?

(And I see that the one in Classifieds has sold.)

ICBM

Tannin said:

I'd have the D-18 every single time. Great guitars.

I would have thought so too, but from across the room it just doesn’t sound as good as the SC. Of course it might just be a duff one or have dead strings on it…

Tannin said:

And unless I seriously miss my guess, those all-solid, no-corners-cut guitars from the likes of Furch, Maton, and Taylor will eat it alive.

Aren’t they a lot more expensive? The point is that I don’t think it’s overpriced at what it is, which is not a high-end price these days, even though I’ve also heard better guitars which cost a lot more.

goldtop said:

I agree about the laminated wood being an unpleasant surprise.

Are we sure it’s to cut costs, or is it possible it’s actually a deliberate design choice with this style of body?

I don’t know, but I do know that guitar sounds great, and I wouldn’t even have guessed it was laminate.

earwighoney

ICBM said:

Are we sure it’s to cut costs, or is it possible it’s actually a deliberate design choice with this style of body?

I don’t know, but I do know that guitar sounds great, and I wouldn’t even have guessed it was laminate.

From a feature about the instrument I came across this

"We’ve started using fine veneer woods for the Road Series, and that does make them roadworthy, because you don’t have to worry about the wood cracking and moving around as much. 

We’re also able to offer better aesthetics - such as more figuring and flame in the grain with fine veneer woods, such as the koa in this instance - at a much lower price point than we could with solid back and sides."

goldtop

ICBM said:

goldtop said:

I agree about the laminated wood being an unpleasant surprise.

Are we sure it’s to cut costs, or is it possible it’s actually a deliberate design choice with this style of body?

I don’t know, but I do know that guitar sounds great, and I wouldn’t even have guessed it was laminate.

I think there was some relationship with their Mexican production and the use of laminate. I don't think it's a 1:1 relationship, though. (FWIW, Martin uses all-solid on the low-cost Dreadnought/000 Jr.) 

But I'll definitely try one as soon as I can. It's the sound that matters.

Moe_Zambeek

These were much cheaper when introduced, I’m sure they could be had for around £1200 before haggling. At the same time a D18 was around £2500.

1700 does seem steep but used prices still seem a bit soft for these so they’re probably a great used buy.

goldtop

This is one of the reviews for the high-end all-solid SC, and somehow I get the impression that they are not very enamoured of it. Seems to be a lot of feint praise:

DavidR

Personally, I never liked the look of the SC13E. I really don't like the asymmetry of the lower bout. It just doesn't look right (and is nowhere near as clever as the Emerald Guitars innovation of twisting the curve between the upper and lower bout on the  GBE side of the guitar slightly to match the angle of your thigh instead of it just being at 90 degrees to the rest of the guitar. That was clever). Never got further than that actually. Have seen them in shops and have not picked one up because I know I would never buy one. Also - electrics - which I never buy.

When they came out in 2019 I really admired Martin for expanding the envelope of guitar design even further. It's commercially very brave to go out on a limb with such a radical design and good luck to them because they seem to have sold a lot. Unlike violins, when you're making a guitar you can change many parameters and still end up with something called a guitar! Martin were very adventurous with the SC13E and that's good.

And yes Martin's generally are very expensiveville, but £1.7K no longer seems that expensive for an instrument from a top maker. It's certainly not expensive for a Martin.

I don't go a bundle on that solid/laminate top contoversy either. If a guitar suits your tonal requirements who cares.

Apart from @ICBM whose mate has got one, we haven't heard from anyone on this thread who owns one as yet. It would be great to get some owner feedback.

goldtop

On that, paging @misterpete - care to share your experience?