Martin SC-13e?

Phil_C

I found this on another forum about the SC-13e

Interesting read.

I own one and love it. I have a thread on this forum about it. It is very effective acoustic instrument for its intended purpose. I have spent about an hour on the phone with a Martin rep. discussing nuances of the instrument. I place the sound experience right their with the 000 28 model. Happy to answer your questions. As far as laminate guitars, I steered away from them till this came to be. The veneers (3 layers) are done with quality wood. Not a cheap fill layer of wood from the birch or poplar species, which is usually the product from a young soft tree. That change alone makes a big difference. Not to mention there is not excessive glue in those veneers of the Martin like you see in much cheaper laminate guitars. The excessive glue is often the reason for laminate guitars sounding so flat. This thing sings. I have let some folks play it. Those that new it was laminate were extremely surprised. The others could not believe it was a laminate, especially with the quality of the Koa. I have two minor nags, which both are dismissive, One, the neck is great with the changing carve, but it is a slight to thin in the first few positions when I quickly sweep up the neck. It is getting better, just takes some getting used to. A ever so slightly thicker neck in the first five positions would be beneficial. Just my take. The other is the pickguard. I do not know if Martin was trying to cling to the purist nature of some of their customer base or history or what. The pickguard would look better if it was plain white, or better yet, none at all. I quickly remove mine. My two cents. I mat change the electronics later on. After learning the uniqueness of the Fishman that is n it, I have learned to live with it, it is not bad. Unplugged, it holds it's own with a 814ce or 000-28. Take care.

Mellish

@Phil_C ; I'd say find one and try it, and if you do and you like it and want it and can afford it, buy it.

Phil_C

Mellish said:

@Phil_C ; I'd say find one and try it, and if you do and you like it and want it and can afford it, buy it.

Yeah I'm thinking so too.

There's a 314ce Taylor on GG pre-owned and a Maton EBG808 Michael Fix for the same price, I must admit they've caught my eye too. Even the Gibson SJ-200 studio in the classifieds has me tempted. Though then I'd never find out about the Martin SC lol


Also found a ex demo Taylor 414ce for £2k but that's a bit over budget

Tannin

ICBM said:

Tannin said:

And unless I seriously miss my guess, those all-solid, no-corners-cut guitars from the likes of Furch, Maton, and Taylor will eat it alive.

Aren’t they a lot more expensive? The point is that I don’t think it’s overpriced at what it is, which is not a high-end price these days, even though I’ve also heard better guitars which cost a lot more.

Well that's the thing. The SC-13 is very dear and costs the same as or more than those guitars I listed. Guitar Guitar sell it for £1699. For the same money or less, Guitar Guitar also have the following all-solid instruments from quality makers:

£1099 Furch Blue dred spruce & walnut
£1099 Furch Blue cedar & Khaya
£1149 Furch Blue spruce & walnut
£1299 (used) Lakewood spruce & Ovangkol
£1299 (used) Larrivee spruce & rosewood
£1299 (used) Larrivee spruce & Sapele
£1299 Cole Clark FL1 Bunya & Queensland Maple
£1299 Taylor American Dream mahogany & Sapele
£1399 Furch Green dred spruce & Khaya
£1399 ditto in an OM
£1399 Cole Clark Humbucker model in all Blackwood (bargain! - these usually cost a lot more)
£1399 Maton SRS-60C spruce & Queensland Maple
£1399 (used) Taylor 314ce spruce & Sapele
£1449 Taylor American Dream spruce & Sapele
£1499 (used) Maestro Red Spruce & mahogany
£1499 Taylor GTe spruce & ash
£1499 Taylor GTe spruce & ash
£1499 (used) Avalon A12 spruce & rosewood
£1499 Cole Clark Humbucker modelBunya & Blackwood
£1499 Cole Clark FL1 all Silky Oak
£1499 Cole Clark Angel 1 all Silky Oak
£1499 Taylor GTe all mahogany
£1539 Maton Performer Bunya & Queensland Maple
£1599 Furch Green dred spruce & rosewood
£1599 Furch Green spruce & rosewood
£1599 Cole Clark FL2 Bunya & Blackwood
£1599 Cole Clark Angel 2 Bunya & Blackwood
£1599 Martin D-15M Sipo
£1599 Martin 00-15M Sipo
£1599 Martin 000-15M Sipo
£1599 Taylor GTe spruce & walnut
£1599 Taylor American Dream 17e spruce & walnut
£1699 Furch Green spruce & rosewood
£1699 Martin D-15M Sipo
£1699 Martin 000-15M Sipo


That's close to 30 good quality, all-solid guitars from quality makers, not counting used ones (some nice guitars there!) and not counting anything made in China.

(Except the used Maestro which I included only for the sake of interest. Maestro are regarded as the real deal, apparently making very good quality instruments which they try really, really hard to pretend are made in Singapore - but which are actually made in China.)

Obviously, I'm going to have to try an SC-13 for myself next time I have the opportunity. (Your report intrigues me. Paul Davids also thinks well of them.) But I have never yet played a laminate guitar which could hold a candle to a good solid one. Taylor have a pretty good crack at it, and one's initial impression of some of their 2 and 3 Series models is very positive, but the early gloss soon fades and they sound very samey after the first few minutes. That wonderful subtlety and variety of tone a good acoustic guitar offers is not there. 

thomasross20

I can't believe a standard oo-18 is now £3k. 
I'd actually consider getting one but yeowch, crazy price and it's not even wood binding.

Gandalph

@Phil_C ;, I'd say that Maton EBG808 certainly warrants a closer look. 

The thrill of the chase hey, love it! 

Gandalph

Just done the morning rounds on Facebook Marketplace.
There's an almost new Maton EBG808 Nashville for £1900 that I dare say you could negotiate on. 

In Scotland too...

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/831204827940780/

thomasross20

Daaaamn. 

You know my girlfriend's advice? Just play the guitars I've got for now (of which I have the new parlour and Bhilwara!) and she's probably right. Dunno when this turned from playing acoustics to buying acoustics! Think I will stick to the occasional shop trip and only snag anything if I like it in person at the time. 

Sorry to derail

Gandalph

thomasross20 said:

Daaaamn. 

You know my girlfriend's advice? Just play the guitars I've got for now (of which I have the new parlour and Bhilwara!) and she's probably right. Dunno when this turned from playing acoustics to buying acoustics! Think I will stick to the occasional shop trip and only snag anything if I like it in person at the time. 

Sorry to derail

Apologies, just realised I notified you a couple of posts ago. Edited now to actually make sense and notify the Op. 

Edit: which also means my reference to the Maton in Scotland is total nonsense as the Op is in Liverpool. 

I'll call a cab.

Soupman

Laminate is cheaper than solid wood. My experience has been that solid woods sound better.
Martin's marketing team think differently.
Sniff deeply. Is that the old familiar scent of Snake Oil...?
Not just any laminate, Martin laminate.......   

 
 

Tannin

Just as well really. Despite being a Maton player to my bootstraps, I'm not really a huge fan of the Nashville.

Apart from the sunburst finish (I have always disliked sunbursts, though at least this one is not as ugly as those awful Gibson ones) the sound is not really to my liking. It lacks body to my ear. Of course a country player may well say "No, it's got a nice bit of twang". Each to his own.

There are three Blackwood-back 808s, the outstanding Australian (which normally comes with a Bunya top but can also be ordered in Sitka Spruce), the sublime Artist, and the Nashville. All more-or-less the same price but the Nashville would be my last choice.

(Plus the EBW808, but that has a Blackwood top as well.) 

ICBM

Update - it was the acoustic session again last night.

First, I was right/wrong - the D-18 hadn’t been sounding at its best previously. The owner has now restrung it and it sounds great, like a D-18 should… all the dynamics, lower midrange punch and sparkling top-end it lacked the last couple of times. The best-sounding guitar there.

*But* - the SC-13 is still a very close second, and just ‘different’ rather than worse. Even now I know it’s laminate, I couldn’t detect any trace of it in the sound. It actually has more ‘woody’ bass than the D-18, a thicker tone overall, and not far off the volume. (Allowing for the different playing styles of their owners.) As mentioned above, it’s actually pretty close to a 000-28, I think - albeit without having one to directly compare it with.

It’s also (to me) better-sounding than a cheaper Martin Dreadnought (I think a 16), a posh Gibson of some sort (Songwriter of some description I think), a Breedlove (don’t know the model), and a top-end Takamine (which I know is laminate back/sides) - all of which are nice guitars, but the Martin SC just sounds better in my opinion - stronger, woodier, more complex, more dynamic and really like a Martin should.

I haven’t played it myself, admittedly - but I also think that hearing the guitars from across the room (we all sit in a big circle) is possibly more useful - it certainly projects well and doesn’t lack depth even from about ten feet away.

So I honestly think those dismissing it purely on the grounds of being laminate are wrong. I also still don’t think it’s overpriced, really - it sounds as good as I would expect a guitar in that price bracket to, and better than a lot I’ve heard.

Tannin

I can't wait to try one - but if it's half as good as those 30-odd cheaper, high-quality, all-solid guitars I listed earlier, I'll eat my boots.

thomasross20

I'm literally playing one right now and it's fantastic. BUT a tad tinny compared to "all wood"

goldtop

thomasross20 said:

I'm literally playing one right now and it's fantastic. BUT a tad tinny compared to "all wood"

Interesting. Is that from the connection through your rib cage as you play, or the actual projection out of the soundhole?

thomasross20

It "vibrated" well, just didn't have the depth compared to some others I played. I think it's a great little guitar and it's good they're trying to innovate. The cutaway is great, I like it

ICBM

Forgot to update this - this week at the jam session I got a chance to actually play the Martin myself for a couple of minutes.

Very interesting… it’s considerably *less* great-sounding to the player than it is from across the room - less apparent volume, much less bass, and in fact sounds a lot more like a small-bodied Taylor or something. Not positively bad at all, but I can certainly imagine that if you played one in a shop you would not be all that impressed. It clearly projects *really* well, to the point that what’s left of the sound going back towards the player is then somewhat lacking.

It also plays exceptionally well - also very Taylor-like, and the cutaway makes the body joint appear to vanish entirely. The slightly offset shape is also extremely comfortable. I didn’t try it plugged in.

I can accept that the lack of backwards projection may be a function of the laminate back/sides - and possibly the very unusual x-braced back, which will also stiffen it - since a lot of the sensation of bass when you’re playing an acoustic comes from the resonance of the back rather than sound from the top, and that is definitely reduced with a laminate body.

DavidR

Not sure what your outcome was with the SC13E @Phil_C but (info only) just noticed there's now recently a SC10E which is a cheaper version. Made in Martin's Mexico factory, Spruce top/Koa laminate back and sides. Seems to be £1300-1375 compared with £1700'ish.

Martin's Mexican offerings are typically impressive, but similar and simpler, with Martin wanting to take advantage of cheaper manufacturing costs without tarnishing the hallowed marketing of its Nazareth site. Those loving Martins but less impressed with high prices, finishing, materials and kudos should always give the Mexican products a good look.

The Guitarist Issue 500 (Aug 2023) gives the SC10E 9/10 and is fairly glowing about tone, and the playability of the S series shape generally. 

So, another option.

:-)

Martin SC-10E Electro Acoustic - Guitars - Acoustic Guitars (expressmusic.co.uk)

DavidR

Actually!!!!  Just noticed SC13E also made in Mexico.

Phil_C

Hello fellas totally forgot to update this thread.

I ended up spotting a second hand Maton Michael Fix EBG808C and I bought that. The price was too good to leave it at £1800.

Though I have played a Martin SC-13e in the meantime - I have to say it does project the traditional Martin tone and the playability is very nice but for me personally; it sounds a little boxy and flat up close. Only up close though. The one I tried had an excellent low end too. Really prominent.

I had someone play it whilst I sat across the room and it sounded superb.

Definitely from a distance it sounds great. All the reviews I've seen says it records great too. You could easily use it as your everyday recording instrument/strummer. 

That being said, if I spotted one at a decent price second hand, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.