The F1 thread

Megii

 Was anyone else sat watching, guiltily hoping that some sort of mechanical breakdown, or incident that would knock him down a few places, would befall Rosberg? I admit I was - I feel a bit bad about it, but...

fretmeister

I want Rosberg to win this time. LH has been annoying me.

But I want him to win with a win next week rather than settle for a couple of 2nd places.

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

Just seen Ham's first corner. That was outrageous! How did he get away with that?

He was in the lead but didn't gain an advantage due to the Virtual Safety Car.

I feel sorry for Max .. he's a breath of fresh air for F1 yet the old farts of the sport just seem to want to moan and crush him. If Vettel had shut up and kept his boot to the floor he could have overtaken him on his fresher tyres. Max is my driver of the year.

And what were the Stewards doing? Bullied by Vettel into demoting Max they then demote Vettel. Total joke.

Rosberg deserves the championship based on the number of wins, but he's a fairly boring driver. Max in a Merc vs Lewis would be entertaining. And that's the problem. F1 has lost its entertainment value - too many petty rules.

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

@Heartfeltdawn I'm not moaning about the swearing .. he's an ex-four time world champion .. how about shutting his mouth and driving and trying to overtake the car in front .. you can't do both at 180 mph. He's paid to drive a Ferrari .. he was trying to get Max a penalty which he succeeded in doing and getting himself on the podium. The stewards would have seen the incident .. drivers should shut up and drive.

And what F1 driver doesn't whine at some point? They all do it. Hamilton's paid to drive a car, not to fuck about during press conferences on social media. Whining is part of being in F1. Always has been, always will be. 

If all drivers had to do was to shut up and drive this week, then folk like you wouldn't be dismissing Vettel for not having the rock star image a la Hamilton. 

Vettel being punished is the right thing. However the overriding problem is this: lousy stewarding. F1 has comfortably the worst officiating of any racing series I can think of. In GT and WEC racing, they are tight on track limits. Warnings are given and they are not afraid to hand out penalties. Incidents during the race are handled quickly and accurately.In F1, it's like the Judean People's Front. The whole moving under braking issue has been going on for over half the season and there's still no clarity on what is and what isn't allowed.  

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

@Heartfeltdawn I'm not moaning about the swearing .. he's an ex-four time world champion .. how about shutting his mouth and driving and trying to overtake the car in front .. you can't do both at 180 mph. He's paid to drive a Ferrari .. he was trying to get Max a penalty which he succeeded in doing and getting himself on the podium. The stewards would have seen the incident .. drivers should shut up and drive.

And what F1 driver doesn't whine at some point? They all do it. Hamilton's paid to drive a car, not to fuck about during press conferences on social media. Whining is part of being in F1. Always has been, always will be. 

If all drivers had to do was to shut up and drive this week, then folk like you wouldn't be dismissing Vettel for not having the rock star image a la Hamilton. 

Vettel being punished is the right thing. However the overriding problem is this: lousy stewarding. F1 has comfortably the worst officiating of any racing series I can think of. In GT and WEC racing, they are tight on track limits. Warnings are given and they are not afraid to hand out penalties. Incidents during the race are handled quickly and accurately.In F1, it's like the Judean People's Front. The whole moving under braking issue has been going on for over half the season and there's still no clarity on what is and what isn't allowed.  

My point is Vettel lost it completely and the fans were denied him going up against Max who was on ancient tyres - Vettel should have passed Max or at least had a go but decided to throw his toys out of the cot instead and acted like a spoilt brat which allowed Max to scoot up the road. The head of Ferrari will take a dim view of that - not good for the brand. 

I totally agree with you about the lousy stewarding. Why don't they have the same group for every race? That would at least be consistent.

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

My point is Vettel lost it completely and the fans were denied him going up against Max who was on ancient tyres - Vettel should have passed Max or at least had a go but decided to throw his toys out of the cot instead and acted like a spoilt brat which allowed Max to scoot up the road. The head of Ferrari will take a dim view of that - not good for the brand. 

I totally agree with you about the lousy stewarding. Why don't they have the same group for every race? That would at least be consistent.

If it had been consistent, then Max would have had a proper talking to from the race stewards some time ago. Some of his antics would have looked crap in junior formulas, let alone this. It hasn't only been Vettel to find fault with him. 

Not good for the brand - Having a consistently shit car for the last few years does far more damage to the brand than a German swearing. 

axisus

Megii said:

 Was anyone else sat watching, guiltily hoping that some sort of mechanical breakdown, or incident that would knock him down a few places, would befall Rosberg? I admit I was - I feel a bit bad about it, but...

100% agree. I'll be right pissed off if he wins the championship as he's only the second best driver in the best car. Hamilton ain't my favourite driver but he's had shedloads of bad luck this year, he'd be a mile in front otherwise. I still think there's been something dodgy going on - german car, german world champ etc.

I'm desperate for Rosberg to not finish just one race in any way possible that doesn't hurt the guy physically. If he still takes the title then I'll live with it.

stickyfiddle

Honestly I think Rosberg deserves a title. Not necessarily based on this year's performance alone, and he's no Ham/Fred/Seb, but to stay this close to Hamilton over 4 seasons and regularly beat him is hella impressive, and Nico's run at the close of last season and start of this one was phenomenal - not something you'd see a Webber (much as I love him) or Barrichello doing.

fretmeister

If Nico's run from the end of last season and the beginning of this one had been within a single season he would have dominated and no-one would be suggesting he didn't deserve a title.

Fretwired

I think Hamilton's eye was off the ball at the end of last season so I wouldn't count Nico's run. He deserves it this year as he's won 9 Grand Prix. Hamilton's had some technical issues but that said Nico hasn't folded like he's done in previous seasons and he's beaten Hamilton fair and square on the track with some fast starts to grab the lead when he's not been on pole.

impmann

TBH, I think Ham's plan at the start was to create lots of smoke going into one of the toughest complexes of first lap corners, then scoot out the other side, creating a smoke screen for all his rivals to trip over themselves in.
The fact that he cut not just one, but two complete corners without any penalty from the stewards marks how good his plan was in execution. They were so busy dealing with the other incidents, they forgot all about his 'cheat' line into those corners.
I imagine from the way he drove in various sectors of the race, he was trying to build in a five second stop-go penalty leeway, so he could get out in front of the Red Bulls and then intimidate Nico into the inevitable error under pressure. However, he was never called upon to do so.
Frankly, the whole race was a bit scrappy - and some really bad sportsmanship from a lot of people who should know better. Vettel showed the world what a spoilt little brat we've always known him to be (and then to show utter ambivalence to why the world was upset by his outbursts). Max is what Max is - he'll do well in Indy... Alonso and Sainz was just silly. And Masa showed that he can still drive the widest car in F1, just like he did when it was painted red.

Whether or not he gained an advantage by his actions is without any question, IMHO. Watch what he does, he had no intention of ever turning those corners... and as for the virtual safety car negating the advantage, well that's bollocks as his actions on corner one meant that he dictated the restart and that is an advantage as we all know.

fretmeister

Fretwired said:

I think Hamilton's eye was off the ball at the end of last season so I wouldn't count Nico's run. He deserves it this year as he's won 9 Grand Prix. Hamilton's had some technical issues but that said Nico hasn't folded like he's done in previous seasons and he's beaten Hamilton fair and square on the track with some fast starts to grab the lead when he's not been on pole.

Not taking your eye off the ball is part of being a champion.

Senna never stopped trying even when he'd already won the title. Neither did Schu.

Fretwired

fretmeister said:

Fretwired said:

I think Hamilton's eye was off the ball at the end of last season so I wouldn't count Nico's run. He deserves it this year as he's won 9 Grand Prix. Hamilton's had some technical issues but that said Nico hasn't folded like he's done in previous seasons and he's beaten Hamilton fair and square on the track with some fast starts to grab the lead when he's not been on pole.

Not taking your eye off the ball is part of being a champion.

Senna never stopped trying even when he'd already won the title. Neither did Schu.

I don't disagree with you but Hamilton won the championship last year with three races to spare. He went off partying .. it was Lauda who said Hamilton's eye was off the ball. Rosberg's raised his game and has done well this year. He should be champion.

boogieman

I'm not that convinced by Nico tbh. He's winning because he's got the best car, same as Jenson's winning season in the Braun car IMO. Undoubtedly he has had the better luck this season too, very few mechanical glitches or meaningful penalties. 

I'd actually love to see a swap of cars as an experiment to see how the top drivers cope with a Manor and if they could get significantly better lap times out of it. And vice versa: if Ochon et al could wring the similar performance times out of the Merc as Hamilton. 

Fretwired

boogieman said:

I'd actually love to see a swap of cars as an experiment to see how the top drivers cope with a Manor and if they could get significantly better lap times out of it. And vice versa: if Ochon et al could wring the similar performance times out of the Merc as Hamilton. 

We already have that .. the team's called McLaren and they have two ex-world champions as drivers .. :-)

Alonso driving for McLaren is a criminal waste of talent.

Garthy

impmann said:

TBH, I think Ham's plan at the start was to create lots of smoke going into one of the toughest complexes of first lap corners, then scoot out the other side, creating a smoke screen for all his rivals to trip over themselves in.
The fact that he cut not just one, but two complete corners without any penalty from the stewards marks how good his plan was in execution. They were so busy dealing with the other incidents, they forgot all about his 'cheat' line into those corners.
I imagine from the way he drove in various sectors of the race, he was trying to build in a five second stop-go penalty leeway, so he could get out in front of the Red Bulls and then intimidate Nico into the inevitable error under pressure. However, he was never called upon to do so.
Frankly, the whole race was a bit scrappy - and some really bad sportsmanship from a lot of people who should know better. Vettel showed the world what a spoilt little brat we've always known him to be (and then to show utter ambivalence to why the world was upset by his outbursts). Max is what Max is - he'll do well in Indy... Alonso and Sainz was just silly. And Masa showed that he can still drive the widest car in F1, just like he did when it was painted red.

Whether or not he gained an advantage by his actions is without any question, IMHO. Watch what he does, he had no intention of ever turning those corners... and as for the virtual safety car negating the advantage, well that's bollocks as his actions on corner one meant that he dictated the restart and that is an advantage as we all know.

What was he supposed to do? Pull up with Rosberg and Verstappen and wait for Ricciardo to come through as the rightful leader? Did he gain a lasting advantage Yes or No? The answer is no because the VSC was thrown before he got to T7. He could have had a 5 sec time penalty at his first pit stop but he would still have come out in front of Rosberg. Further more I cannot recall a leading driver going off on their own to ever be punished on the first offense or  on lap 1, especially when positions 2 and 3 were tripping over themselves and wouldn't have been able to advance themselves anyway.

impmann

Garthy said:

impmann said:

TBH, I think Ham's plan at the start was to create lots of smoke going into one of the toughest complexes of first lap corners, then scoot out the other side, creating a smoke screen for all his rivals to trip over themselves in.
The fact that he cut not just one, but two complete corners without any penalty from the stewards marks how good his plan was in execution. They were so busy dealing with the other incidents, they forgot all about his 'cheat' line into those corners.
I imagine from the way he drove in various sectors of the race, he was trying to build in a five second stop-go penalty leeway, so he could get out in front of the Red Bulls and then intimidate Nico into the inevitable error under pressure. However, he was never called upon to do so.
Frankly, the whole race was a bit scrappy - and some really bad sportsmanship from a lot of people who should know better. Vettel showed the world what a spoilt little brat we've always known him to be (and then to show utter ambivalence to why the world was upset by his outbursts). Max is what Max is - he'll do well in Indy... Alonso and Sainz was just silly. And Masa showed that he can still drive the widest car in F1, just like he did when it was painted red.

Whether or not he gained an advantage by his actions is without any question, IMHO. Watch what he does, he had no intention of ever turning those corners... and as for the virtual safety car negating the advantage, well that's bollocks as his actions on corner one meant that he dictated the restart and that is an advantage as we all know.

What was he supposed to do? Pull up with Rosberg and Verstappen and wait for Ricciardo to come through as the rightful leader? Did he gain a lasting advantage Yes or No? The answer is no because the VSC was thrown before he got to T7. He could have had a 5 sec time penalty at his first pit stop but he would still have come out in front of Rosberg. Further more I cannot recall a leading driver going off on their own to ever be punished on the first offense or  on lap 1, especially when positions 2 and 3 were tripping over themselves and wouldn't have been able to advance themselves anyway.

Well he was *supposed* to go around the corner... but hey, call me old fashioned. ;-)

boogieman

Fretwired said:

boogieman said:

I'd actually love to see a swap of cars as an experiment to see how the top drivers cope with a Manor and if they could get significantly better lap times out of it. And vice versa: if Ochon et al could wring the similar performance times out of the Merc as Hamilton. 

We already have that .. the team's called McLaren and they have two ex-world champions as drivers .. :-)

Alonso driving for McLaren is a criminal waste of talent.

Indeed. 

 I do wonder how Alonso keeps his motivation going. Maybe it's the thought that he's getting reasonable results (lately) out of a dog of a car and not many others could achieve that? I would love to see him getting another crack at the championship with a decent car. Anyone know if McLaren are going to be anywhere near competitive next year?  

stickyfiddle

boogieman said:

Fretwired said:

boogieman said:

I'd actually love to see a swap of cars as an experiment to see how the top drivers cope with a Manor and if they could get significantly better lap times out of it. And vice versa: if Ochon et al could wring the similar performance times out of the Merc as Hamilton. 

We already have that .. the team's called McLaren and they have two ex-world champions as drivers .. :-)

Alonso driving for McLaren is a criminal waste of talent.

Indeed. 

 I do wonder how Alonso keeps his motivation going. Maybe it's the thought that he's getting reasonable results (lately) out of a dog of a car and not many others could achieve that? I would love to see him getting another crack at the championship with a decent car. Anyone know if McLaren are going to be anywhere near competitive next year?  

Next year removes the token system from engines, and changes the aero rules, so it's anyone's guess. Honda apparently already have next year's engine working well on a dyno, but whether they have it spitting 1000bhp and working the energy side perfectly is fairly unlikely.

And despite Prodromou's talents it appears their chassis has been pretty average all year as well. 

We're all hoping but I can't see anyone but Mercedes and RB getting it right.

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

boogieman said:

Fretwired said:

boogieman said:

I'd actually love to see a swap of cars as an experiment to see how the top drivers cope with a Manor and if they could get significantly better lap times out of it. And vice versa: if Ochon et al could wring the similar performance times out of the Merc as Hamilton. 

We already have that .. the team's called McLaren and they have two ex-world champions as drivers .. :-)

Alonso driving for McLaren is a criminal waste of talent.

Indeed. 

 I do wonder how Alonso keeps his motivation going. Maybe it's the thought that he's getting reasonable results (lately) out of a dog of a car and not many others could achieve that? I would love to see him getting another crack at the championship with a decent car. Anyone know if McLaren are going to be anywhere near competitive next year?  

Next year removes the token system from engines, and changes the aero rules, so it's anyone's guess. Honda apparently already have next year's engine working well on a dyno, but whether they have it spitting 1000bhp and working the energy side perfectly is fairly unlikely.

And despite Prodromou's talents it appears their chassis has been pretty average all year as well. 

We're all hoping but I can't see anyone but Mercedes and RB getting it right.

I thought the McLaren chassis is highly regarded ...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124354