The F1 thread

Fretwired

Cols said:

First day of testing done.  Ferrari are worryingly quick straight out of the box.  Williams didn’t even make it out of Heathrow departures lounge.

Ferrari were last year as well .. and then they went backwards.

Wolff's comments about Brexit weren't good. Could Mercedes pull out or relocate?

stickyfiddle

I'm not worried about testing times on day 1. Noone is really trying for pace, just basic fundamentals and balance stuff.  That said, it's potentially good that Mercedes hasn't just bolted to the top and stayed there as in some previous years. 

I'm worried for Williams. It's possible they'll get a good start once they actually get the car in one piece and on track; if the car is actually good they'll quickly make up for a couple of days missed. But for a team which hasn't changed engine supplier and has supposedly worked on the design since at least halfway through 2018 it's not where they need to be. I've said for a long time I didn't rate Paddy...

prowla

stickyfiddle said:

TimmyO said:

McLaren tomorrow - I predict a triumph of marketing copy over substance. 

Alonso has quit so they should finally build a halfway decent car...  

I think it made it half-way 'round the track...

siremoon

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

First day of testing done.  Ferrari are worryingly quick straight out of the box.  Williams didn’t even make it out of Heathrow departures lounge.

Ferrari were last year as well .. and then they went backwards.

Wolff's comments about Brexit weren't good. Could Mercedes pull out or relocate?

My recollection of last year is that the Ferrari car was quicker than Mercedes for most of the season.  The notable exception being after the summer break when they fitted an upgrade package that made the car slower and it took them about 4 races to figure out they'd screwed up and remove it.  The reason they didn't win the championship wasn't because the car was slower than the Mercedes.  It was because Vettel made several stupid mistakes and Hamilton barely made any, and, Ferrari as a team screwed up their race strategy and management far more often than Mercedes did. 

I don't see how Mercedes could move and stay competitive.  Their factory and engine facility are both here.  If they moved the disruption and the potential loss of people to competitors would probably knock them out of contention for a couple of years whilst the new location got up to speed.  Is that something they'd be prepared to risk?  I suppose the answer to that depends on the practical effects of Brexit on their operations. 

It seems to me that the biggest impact will be on the logistics of moving components about.  Whilst this may be become more bureaucratic and slower to and from mainland Europe, it is not as if F1 teams are moving huge volumes.  As ever though we'll see.

siremoon

stickyfiddle said:

I'm not worried about testing times on day 1. Noone is really trying for pace, just basic fundamentals and balance stuff.  That said, it's potentially good that Mercedes hasn't just bolted to the top and stayed there as in some previous years. 

I'm worried for Williams. It's possible they'll get a good start once they actually get the car in one piece and on track; if the car is actually good they'll quickly make up for a couple of days missed. But for a team which hasn't changed engine supplier and has supposedly worked on the design since at least halfway through 2018 it's not where they need to be. I've said for a long time I didn't rate Paddy...

Reports yesterday that the Williams might be 2 sec a lap off the pace as well as being late.

I've never rated Lowe either.  He benefited from the ground work that Brawn put in at Mercedes and has presided over a shambles at Williams.  Reports yesterday saying that Williams insiders were telling him for months that the car would be late unless they got their act together and he did nothing.  I have a suspicion that Smedley leaving is somehow connected to Lowe's ineptitude. 

stickyfiddle

siremoon said:

stickyfiddle said:

I'm not worried about testing times on day 1. Noone is really trying for pace, just basic fundamentals and balance stuff.  That said, it's potentially good that Mercedes hasn't just bolted to the top and stayed there as in some previous years. 

I'm worried for Williams. It's possible they'll get a good start once they actually get the car in one piece and on track; if the car is actually good they'll quickly make up for a couple of days missed. But for a team which hasn't changed engine supplier and has supposedly worked on the design since at least halfway through 2018 it's not where they need to be. I've said for a long time I didn't rate Paddy...

Reports yesterday that the Williams might be 2 sec a lap off the pace as well as being late.

I've never rated Lowe either.  He benefited from the ground work that Brawn put in at Mercedes and has presided over a shambles at Williams.  Reports yesterday saying that Williams insiders were telling him for months that the car would be late unless they got their act together and he did nothing.  I have a suspicion that Smedley leaving is somehow connected to Lowe's ineptitude. 

Yeah, seriously bad if true. Everyone else has been saying we're looking at 1.5 seconds slower, which is to be expected with the new regs (and I'm very happy if it means longer braking distances due to reduced grip), but the Williams was already 2 seconds slower than everyone else last year, so they need to have at least stayed the same to have a hope. 

Agreed re Smedley - the statements around that all felt extremely corporate and polite for a team with "heart" like Williams. 

As for Paddy, he oversaw some amazing success at Mercedes, but I'm well convinced that was down to Brawn's work in the early days in setting the establishment & structures to win. It didn't need a man of his talents to keep a good team working well together. By all accounts the work on the phenomenal power unit and chassis for 2014 started in 2011, and they were already winning by 2012 and 2013. Overseeing an already-excellent and cash-rich team is a *way* different prospect than dragging a backmarker up the grid without enough money.

Cols

There’s growing rumours that Paddy Lowe has a metaphorical knife against his throat over the performance of the Williams.  If it’s not immediately quick, he’s done for.

TimmyO

I'd heard that Lowe was effectively irrelevant at Williams but for whatever reason they can't get shot of him. 

Fretwired

Cols said:

There’s growing rumours that Paddy Lowe has a metaphorical knife against his throat over the performance of the Williams.  If it’s not immediately quick, he’s done for.

Williams are broke - without cash you can't design and build a winning car. They are stuck with the 'family ownership' model and Claire's too lightweight to be any good. They need to get some serious investment on board.

Cols

The team’s been well-funded for years - Martini money, young Lance’s pocket money and the payoff from Merc for poaching Bottas out of his contract.  Drumming up sponsorship is Claire’s job and she’s done it very well up to now.  Unfortunately the car design - which isn’t her job - was atrocious last year and not much better the year before.  It’s a lot more difficult to persuade sponsors to loosen their purse strings when your car is the slowest on the grid.

sweepy

According to Sky, Martini only paid  £18M to Williams as the main sponsor, this seems very low indeed, so maybe she isn't that good a negotiator or there is no big money left in F1

Fretwired

Press reports say William's team members are on the verge of mutiny. Lowe is not accepting blame for the car - apparently Frank oversaw the development himself. Sounds like Lowe thinks he's been sidelined. There's a film on Williams coming out showing Claire in tears at Monaco last year wondering if she was up to the job. The end of Williams could be nigh.

Cols

If Lowe won’t accept any responsibility for the car, he may have misunderstood what precisely a Chief Bloody Technical Officer is meant to do.

Fretwired

Cols said:

If Lowe won’t accept any responsibility for the car, he may have misunderstood what precisely a Chief Bloody Technical Officer is meant to do.

Reports say Frank sidelined him ... the problem with family run teams. No longer fit for purpose.

fretmeister

McLaren seem to have quite a reliable car so far. Loads of laps done.

Cols

Well, Williams have got some laps in... but they’re 8 seconds off the pace.  Paddy Lowe’s scheduled press conference has been kicked back to tomorrow.

I rather imagine poor Paddy’s been left alone in the Williams motorhome with a bottle of whisky and a loaded revolver.

Fretwired

Cols said:

Well, Williams have got some laps in... but they’re 8 seconds off the pace.  Paddy Lowe’s scheduled press conference has been kicked back to tomorrow.

I rather imagine poor Paddy’s been left alone in the Williams motorhome with a bottle of whisky and a loaded revolver.

They probably can't afford the whiskey. If the car's that bad they won't be able to race ...

TimmyO

Cols said:

If Lowe won’t accept any responsibility for the car, he may have misunderstood what precisely a Chief Bloody Technical Officer is meant to do.

See my post earlier. He gets wheeled out for talks and PR. 

Cols

TimmyO said:

Cols said:

If Lowe won’t accept any responsibility for the car, he may have misunderstood what precisely a Chief Bloody Technical Officer is meant to do.

See my post earlier. He gets wheeled out for talks and PR. 

Part of his joining fee was that he became a shareholder in Williams and got a seat on the Board of Directors; I guess that makes things awkward.  Contrary to popular belief, Williams isn’t wholly owned by Sir Frank.  

Heartfeltdawn

@Fretwired ;

The Williams film - is it this one?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0002p1x/williams-formula-1-in-the-blood

Must get round to watching it.