Starting out in guitar building - There will be questions!

SteveF

Oh absolutely! And one where you could easily sink a load more money if you want to.  

I could try oil type finishes, but the guitars I like the look of are more often than not gloss lacquered.  I will persevere. 

I thought about stripping it back now and redoing the finish before continuing with the build, but given the likelihood that I won't be able to do that for a number of months, I want to start on something else.  I don't want to build another guitar until I have been through all the processes at least once and see if the guitar actually works though.  Hence my decision to go ahead and build it in the current state for now. 

davros

I bet that's annoying. I love the woodwork and hate the finishing but a good finish is often what differentiates something that looks proper professional.

I don't think I've done a single guitar hasn't had some kind of finishing issue.

How many cans of clear did you use? I now use at least 4 full cans of MGT clear on a set neck and have still had sand throughs.

GoldenEraGuitars

@SteveF i must be honest, I haven’t really read any of this but I’m just nosying at your last few pics.

One thing about nitrocellulose and single pack paints and lacquers is, while easy to “mess up” they’re also very easy to fix. 

I’m not sure if you have a random orbital sander but I’d get one with an interface pad and a few different grades of wet and dry discs (400 up to 1500). 

Use the 400 and interface pad to go over all the finish (do not add water during any of this), this’ll let you see the high and low spots. Any areas you’ve burned through to the primer can be dusted in first with the blue before adding another few coats to the entire body for evenness. The first clear coat should be a dust/mist coat, this will allow the metallic in the paint to remain standing up. Laying a wet coat could force the metallics down flat which isn’t something you want.

After this you can add 3 - 4 coats of clear, allow to gas out and add another 1-2 before hitting the body with the sander again but this time use an 800 disc. You can then add another few coats of clear, at this point you’ll see how flat the finish lays down. Based on this method the end result is a smoother and flatter surface to do a final sand on. You might deem it good enough to avoid a final sanding altogether. However, if you want you can sand it again with 1000-1500 and add a final wet coat.

Don’t be scared or intimidated by painting, it’s all repairable to the point you’d never know a mistake is there. 

For reference I use a Makita 125mm sander for scuffing the lacquer between coats. Avoid hand sanding, believe it or not a power sander with interface pad isn’t as harsh as hand sanding and gets a more uniform finish. 

davros

Good advice from the expert! I might try these tips on my next build!

SteveF

Thanks Scott, really useful knowledge here. 

I have one of these sanders - hopefully should be suitable: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosch-PEX-Random-Orbit-Sander/dp/B0002KHIN0/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=284MC7SU02CXY&keywords=bosch%2Borbital%2Bsander&qid=1696153455&sprefix=bosch%2Borbi%2Caps%2C103&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

These the type of pads you mean? https://www.amazon.co.uk/SI-FANG-Interface-Resistant-Reduction/dp/B0B93P8LWG/ref=sr_1_10?crid=25Y84QQHVW1W3&keywords=orbit%2Bsander%2Binterface%2Bpad&qid=1696153413&sprefix=orbit%2Bsander%2Binterface%2Bpa%2Caps%2C102&sr=8-10&th=1

So to confirm, you don't wet sand at all in any of this? After flattening all down with the sander etc, you just (sometimes) put on a final wet coat of clear and then buff it once hardened? 

SteveF

davros said:

I bet that's annoying. I love the woodwork and hate the finishing but a good finish is often what differentiates something that looks proper professional.

I don't think I've done a single guitar hasn't had some kind of finishing issue.

How many cans of clear did you use? I now use at least 4 full cans of MGT clear on a set neck and have still had sand throughs.

Oh wow.  I used a can and a bit of blue and then about a can and a half of clear.  I had used half a can on the neck and then used the remainder of that plus another full can. 

davros

When I say set neck i mean the neck and body together. That's still a really thin finish too, when I mask bridge post holes, the thickness of paint on the tape when I take it off is fractions of a mm.

GoldenEraGuitars

If you use water with the sander the interface pad and Velcro pad on the sander will get knackered, you should be able to dry sand using wet and dry discs.

That sander and pad look fine.

If you want to sand and machine polish at the end use a 1500-2000 disc followed by Abralon pads from 2000-7000. Honestly, this will blow your mind as machine polishing would take no time at all. 

I don’t really do the final part of the process anymore because it takes away from the effect I need to create. But if I was doing a batch of gloss “factory” finish bodies then I’d use the method with the abralon pads. You really need to minimise the risk of burn through which most people fall victim to because they’re trying to get rid of deep scratches caused by hand sanding. The simple advise is, avoid hand sanding and your life will be easier.

For the sides of the body you’ll still need to hand sand and at this point a touch of water is fine. But for the sides start at 800 paper. If you use 400 paper while hand sanding you’ll probably never get rid of the scratches.

davros

Scott, what abrasives do you recommend? I assume you're using dust extraction on the sander too, right?

For hand sanding I've found the mirka gold pads relatively resistant to gumming up, and the abranet with a sander.

SteveF

Thanks so much Scott - will definitely give it a go.  Can't argue with your results!!!  I knew there was a lot of skill involved in what you do, but this has taken my level of respect for it to a new level. 

SteveF

Meant to ask - do you (or would you if you did that stage) use any kind of polishing compound with the abralon pads at the end?

SteveF

So, of all things, I'm having issues with the wiring/pickups.  I am pretty confident with electrics and soldering, so I am not sure what's going on tbh.  

Bridge pickup sounds fine.  Neck pickup *almost* no output.  Strangely a very small output on the higher strings but zero or next to zero on the rest. 

Pickup is reading 7.3k both at the base, ends of the wires and at the jack when switched to neck position.  I have rechecked the joints for dry solder joints and have even tried jumping the hot wire straight to the jack. Checked for ground continuity and all fine. Also switched the bridge/neck pickup wires around to sanity check my wiring and the bridge pickup works correctly when wired into the neck position on the switch.  

I would have thought at this stage that the pickup might be faulty, but what could it be if the DC resistance is showing what I would expect?  That would suggest the coil is fine?  I am confused.com.  Paging @OilCityPickups any ideas on what I should check? 

OilCityPickups

What were the pickups again?

Just delved back into the thread ... Honkytonk Angel neck .... I'll PM you

SteveF

Pickups all sorted and sounding fantastic. The FortyNiner bridge and Honkytonk Angel neck are a great pairing and genuinely my favourite tele pickups I have tried. 

So I have come to pretty much the end of this first build (less the refinish to follow as mentioned before).  Loads learned to take into the next build and I will start a new thread for that one.  First of all, a couple of pics.  It’s not as pretty as it could be due to the sanding mishaps but I will rectify that in time. 



The good news is, I have a playable guitar, which I am extremely happy about. That was what I was hoping for when I set out to do this and in general it plays really well.  Certainly better than I expected. 

Now the warts and all bit. 

- I had to deepen the neck pocket a tad. On reflection I should have taken all the hardware off and fitted the routing template again but I left the bridge/controls on and ill advisedly figured I could just use the sides of the pocket as the template.  It was hard to keep the router steady near the edges and I managed to take a small bit off the bass side edge. It’s not really noticeable but I know it’s there. 

- I redid the fall away on the high frets.  I think I was a little bet tentative when I did it originally.  It has improved matters but I still have some choking on the high E e.g. when bending a full tone at the 15th.  I don’t think I have a high fret, so it might just be the setup needs fettling a tad. (Any advice here on tracking down the issue, or resolution, appreciated). 

- When I was spindle sanding the body I managed to sand a small divot into the treble side of the neck pocket a tad so there is a small protrusion of the neck over the edge of the pocket. It’s not noticeable when playing but you can see it especially from the back. 

- The body has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese - all documented in the thread and repaired along the way with varying levels of success. 

- The neck profile didn’t end up as I had initially planned.  I overshot slightly so ended up with a thinner profile than I was going for but it is comfortable and plays ok. 

- The scratchplate is a cheap and nasty one and isn’t shaped very well (e.g. you can see in the cutaway it’s not a smooth curve.  I will probably replace this when I do the refinish. I also don’t like the tuners.  They are some cheap locking ones from NWG but I don’t like the mechanism and they don’t feel great.  They do seem to hold tune ok though. 

- When deepening the slot for the nut, I used a chisel and slightly blew out some of the rosewood at the sides.  I probably should have scored/sawed to the depth first to break the fibres.  Fixed with rosewood dust and glue. Seems ok. 

All in all, for a first scratch build I am pretty happy with how it turned out and I am confident to try again and hopefully improve with the next one.  Thanks to all who have given advice and guidance throughout - it has been a godsend. 

BillDL

That's a really fine looking guitar.  It's hard to ignore some of our minor mishaps even after they have been rectified almost invisibly, but it's probable that nobody else would even notice.  I like the "Garagecaster" decal.  I was going to get one made up for my guitar that said "Toleycaster", but it seems like there are a few different ways to spell "toley" 

SteveF

Thanks Bill. Like I say I always looked at this one a learning experience. It’s certainly playable and if I ever make another tele style I can always pull the pickups and put some cheaper ones in and use the oil city ones for the new one. 

WezV

Looks great, especially for a first attempt