Videoing gigs

Monkeybone

For those who gig, and like to do videos of said gigs, what do you use to film? I know obvious answers will probably be phones, but I'm looking for a step up in sound quality. Would a third party microphone (something like a Rode VideoMic or Sennheiser MKE 200) be any good? For reference, I use a Samsung S22.

TheBigDipper

A suggestion. If you have something at the start of a gig that makes a sound (like the drummer hitting the sticks to count you all in) then use any recording device you like for the sound, and match it up to the pictures later. You can use multiple cameras (or phones on stands) as well. Or just clap once into a mic once the recorders are recording. 

Edit: Sorry, my point being it doesn't have to be a mic that attaches to your camera phone. It could be a feed from the desk or a multitrack you've made as you feed the PA, or whatever... 

Snags

For performances where I don't have access to the desk (most of them) I usually just use a Lumix G80 with a Rode Video Micro II (on a gorillapod or tripod). It's pretty good for amateur stuff, and certainly good enough to use for promo reels and stuff at my level, with a bit of tweaking.

If I have access to a feed from the desk, particularly multi-track, or if I'm doing something at home where I can record audio to the DAW then I'll use the Lumix for the video and (probably) the native mic then sync it up with the decent audio later, and then strip the audio off the video footage. That also makes it easier to use phones or other cameras as secondary devices for different angles etc. (a single static camera for a whole song, let alone a whole set, is pretty boring).

Whitecat

Getting a small recorder - even something as simple as a Zoom H1N - and plugging into the board, will give you a massive step up in quality. A shotgun mic like you've mentioned isn't going to be a massive improvement - it could be a minor one, depending on your device, but keep in mind it will also be mono only.

I've filmed some shows professionally and I always get a board recording which I augment with my own recorders - usually one at the back and one at the front if possible, because you want to be able to blend in some room ambience that is often lacking in the 'dry' FOH mix - you have to remember that mixers are mixing for the room, not for video, so there may be elements that sound very different once recorded than they did on the night. As above, if you were doing this as a spare-no-expense project you'd have a parallel system taking feeds from the board as a multitrack, plus some extra audience-facing mics to cover the aforementioned ambience etc. But I'd always rather have a stereo feed from the board sent directly to even a cheap recorder if I could.

A sync spot as mentioned can be helpful if you haven't got the means to edit in "pro" software, but most software can audio match clips now quite simply so you can marry up audio and video (which simplifies things if you use more than one camera too).

mudslide73

We use a Zoom q2n for stage stuff. I match audio from the desk in Davinci Resolve afterwards - it's got the sync tool @whitecat mentions. 

fastonebaz

I've been using an older but 4k camcorder with wide angle lens and external Rode mic for few years and get decent results on that.   Advantage being unlimited continuous recording (subject to battery and sd card) so I can easily record a 3hr show without pause.  Very handy. 

Alot of DSLRs limit recording to avoid overheating.

All the action cams I've tried have poor low light video.

I'm still waiting on the holy grail:

Small form factor, lightweight, large sensor, long continuous recording, front screen, external mic port, 3hr rechargeable battery life, low cost.

Not found it yet. 

Maybe mobile phone with external mic is the answer. 

Whitecat

fastonebaz said:

I've been using an older but 4k camcorder with wide angle lens and external Rode mic for few years and get decent results on that.   Advantage being unlimited continuous recording (subject to battery and sd card) so I can easily record a 3hr show without pause.  Very handy. 

Alot of DSLRs limit recording to avoid overheating.

That's only part of it, apparently - lots of them limited recording for tax reasons. They were tariffed differently if they could record unlimited video on top of doing stills, so they were intentionally hobbled to come in at a lower price. Many companies have now just given up on that and are giving people what they want, although the heat factor is still an issue with some, others now have fans that can help with that.

Roland

We like to take a recording of each performance, usually from a phone, so that we can look back on what happened, and how the audience responded. For “proper” recordings we take a multi-channel recording from our desk, and remix for video. We need to remix because the live FOH mix is low on drums.

For “proper” video our bass player has a camera which we use in safe venues where there are friends in the audience to look after it. We like to cut in video, but not sound, clips from friends and family because they give a better sense of the audience’s experience.

Roland

@paulmapp8306 Do you use an external mic with your phone?

Danny1969

I've set a phone up and just added audio from the desk a few times, it sounds ok but looks boring ... 

flying_pie

For those of you taking about a feed from the desk - are you referring mainly to his with the drums miced up? What do you do if it's a small gig and the drums aren't going through the desk?

Whitecat

flying_pie said:

For those of you taking about a feed from the desk - are you referring mainly to his with the drums miced up? What do you do if it's a small gig and the drums aren't going through the desk?

As I mentioned, I put up one or two secondary recorders to augment whatever's coming from the desk. Mix to taste. It's not always amazing.

Roland

flying_pie said:

For those of you taking about a feed from the desk - are you referring mainly to his with the drums miced up? What do you do if it's a small gig and the drums aren't going through the desk?

We’ve never played a venue where we don’t, at least, mic the kick. We’ve had times where we were playing so quietly that we turned the drums right down, but we still set up the drum mics in case we need them.

Danny1969

We also always mic the drums. For one we use IEM's so want some drums in our ears even of they aren't through the PA but also to give the soundman the option to bring up the toms for certain songs which can get lost a lot easier than the snare. Kick is generally always in the PA and the reverb return for the snare ... so the snare might not be coming out the PA but it's reverb is, creating a bigger wider more polished snare sound that isn't really any louder but is nicer in the mix. To do this change the aux send on the snare to pre fader so you still hear the verb despite the fader is down. 

flying_pie

Roland said:

flying_pie said:

For those of you taking about a feed from the desk - are you referring mainly to his with the drums miced up? What do you do if it's a small gig and the drums aren't going through the desk?

We’ve never played a venue where we don’t, at least, mic the kick. We’ve had times where we were playing so quietly that we turned the drums right down, but we still set up the drum mics in case we need them.

Of course. I meant the full kit thing through the desk and should have clarified that.

I suppose that recording a drum feed even if none of it actually goes FOH would be a good idea and could reduce the crapness of video only sound 

Danny1969

The quality of audio from a modern iPhone is actually surprisingly good. As long as the compressor doesn't bite too hard. Much, much better than it used to be.  

Whitecat

Danny1969 said:

The quality of audio from a modern iPhone is actually surprisingly good. As long as the compressor doesn't bite too hard. Much, much better than it used to be.  

Yep, same with the video for that matter. As a media creation machine in your pocket, they are rather astounding.

Stratavarious

We get leaps ahead with quality by synching to a mixed multitrack from the desk.  We have the mics on everything for IEMs even if they are not into the FOH PA mix anyway.   Even easier when our digital kit is in use.

We then use the synch clips function in the video editor to align all the phone and camera clips with the high quality audio.  Takes seconds to do it. 

The often excessive room noise, compression and EQ always make phone audio boxier than getting desk audio.

we usually use two fixed GoPro type cameras to allow for some variation and can synch in any extra phone clips or roving video closeups.   If we know we are making a new promo, we get someone to film the solos and singers.

paulmapp8306

Roland said:

@paulmapp8306 Do you use an external mic with your phone?

yeh, the Sure Motiv MV+88.   Its a stereo condenser mic, and has its own apps (one for audio, one for video+audio).  Having adjustable gains on that means I get no clipping even in really loud environments.  Great quality audio for a live room.

Monkeybone

Sorry all, been away from the site for a couple of days.

I should have added, I'm a solo musician, and my mixing desk is a Bose T1 Tonematch (Bose L1 user here).

Unfortunately, having multiple recorders dotted around is a no go, as I'm usually by myself and can't keep an eye on the whole room.

Mrs Monkey's Sony bridge camera has an inbuilt stereo microphone, so I could use that. Otherwise, I guess my only other option is try my phone's inbuilt microphone. 

FarleyUK

I've always used a Zoom Q4n, but recently upgraded to the Zoom Q8n - both are brilliant, and the Q8 has 2 x XLR inputs so you can also use sound direct from the mixer / desk.

However, I have to admit that I think I prefer the ease of use of the Q4n.