Another headless guitar build

Winny_Pooh

It looks great though. Maybe the tone pot is burnt out? I've done this with two bournes pots where I think the tracks are contacting the case.

Roland

@Winny_Pooh Pots are new. I took them out, and measured them, and then swapped for other new pots. Eventually I stripped the guitar down, and found a whisker of copper wire from the live end of the pickup was touching the cavity shielding. The pickups were at the bottom of their range. If I’d raised them towards the strings then the problem would have gone away.

Unfortunately as I was taking the pickups out I dropped an Allen key into the cavity, and it severed the connecting wire. The pickup is now with Ash at @OilCityPickups ;for mending/rewire, which means it will be a while before I re-assemble.

Winny_Pooh

Ooh. Frustrating. Part of every build process though.

OilCityPickups

Roland said:

@Winny_Pooh Pots are new. I took them out, and measured them, and then swapped for other new pots. Eventually I stripped the guitar down, and found a whisker of copper wire from the live end of the pickup was touching the cavity shielding. The pickups were at the bottom of their range. If I’d raised them towards the strings then the problem would have gone away.

Unfortunately as I was taking the pickups out I dropped an Allen key into the cavity, and it severed the connecting wire. The pickup is now with Ash at @OilCityPickups ;for mending/rewire, which means it will be a while before I re-assemble.

And it is now fixed and winging its way back to you :-)

Roland

Thanks Ash. Once upon a time I would have tried to do this myself, but now I’m older and wiser.

Roland

The guitar is now back together and working. I’ve resisted the urge to make it shiny, which would darken the blue. There’s some setup to do, which can wait until the body and neck have settled under string tension. 

I’m playing with tone capacitors. It’s a question of how quickly, and how far, the treble rolls off. Today there’s a .033 capacitor in series with a 180K resistor. I’ll try it at tomorrow’s rehearsal. After that I’m thinking .047 with a larger resistor.

hollywoodrox

That is so cool ,well done you are very skilled 

Maak

How is the bridge hardware working out, compared to what you've previously tried?

Roland

@Maak once I’ve played it for a while, and changed the strings at least once, I’ll start a separate thread reviewing the four different headless bridges which I’ve tried over the last couple of years. There are two things I can say at the moment:

1. The Nova has less room for height adjustment than either the Hipshot or the J-Custom. I’m considering shimming the neck to give more room for manoeuvre.
2. To adjust the intonation you have to remove the string first. You can’t simply slacken off, adjust, and retune as you can with other tuners. It’s a combination of lack of travel in the tuner, the string passing directly over the Allen head which holds the saddle in place, and the saddle moving if there’s any pressure at all on the string. Of course, once it’s set up this won’t be a problem. I normally use round cored strings. For the set-up I’m using hex core so that I can take them off without the string unwinding.

I’ve already decided to replace the potentiometers. They don’t give a smooth gradation, instead they step between low, medium, and high resistance. Since I’m constantly adjusting tone and volume as I play they aren’t going to work for me. Does any one have a source for smoother pots?

Roland

hollywoodrox said:

That is so cool ,well done you are very skilled 

Cool it may be, but I’m not sure about the blue side markers. I messed up a solo this morning because I slid up to the wrong fret position. 

There’s not that much skill. It’s mainly buying the right tools, and having plenty of time to play with them since I retired.

MARVlN

 

Roland said:

To adjust the intonation you have to remove the string first. You can’t simply slacken off, adjust, and retune as you can with other tuners. It’s a combination of lack of travel in the tuner, the string passing directly over the Allen head which holds the saddle in place, and the saddle moving if there’s any pressure at all on the string. Of course, once it’s set up this won’t be a problem. I normally use round cored strings. For the set-up I’m using hex core so that I can take them off without the string unwinding.

This is definitely the weakest part of the Nova bridge (although pretty common with individual headless bridges), but I find a ball-ended hex driver (or allen key) is a godsend for this kind of adjustment - you can get away with slackening the string enough to give you movement, then the ball end means you don't need a clear shot straight down into the head of the screw.

paulnb57

Id be interested to hear your thoughts on the different bridges you have tried as Im thinking of “having a go”

I had a Hohner Jack many years ago and have just got a Steinberger Spirit, I miss the Hohner with its full size body and the Stein has scratched the itch to try another

Id also be interested in what you use at the nut end…..

Roland

@paulnb57 I’m thinking of doing a separate thread on bridge/tuners. That’s unlikely to happen before Christmas. Briefly:

Overlord tuner is crap. Don’t waste your time unless you want a metalwork project converting it. Overlord string retainer is unusable. More discussion here.

J-Custom tuner is heavier than the others, but works. Build thread here.

Nova is good, but has limited adjustment. Also fiddly to use - you have to take apart to change strings. String retainer is good, but screws into neck from the front, so needs thick area at head end. I reduced this by using threaded inserts instead of screws.

Hipshot is the best. Feels like a conventional Tele bridge to use. Can be improved by using the ball races described here. String retainer screws onto end of neck, so no thick area needed. However it is very expensive, and can easily cost as much as the rest of the guitar and parts.

Grainger do a string retainer. Nice design which hides cut end of the string. However you have to cut the string to length before use. Since I use round core strings, which unwind if cut, I can’t use it.

paulnb57

Roland said:

@paulnb57 I’m thinking of doing a separate thread on bridge/tuners. That’s unlikely to happen before Christmas. Briefly:

Overlord tuner is crap. Don’t waste your time unless you want a metalwork project converting it. Overlord string retainer is unusable. More discussion here.

J-Custom tuner is heavier than the others, but works. Build thread here.

Nova is good, but has limited adjustment. Also fiddly to use - you have to take apart to change strings. String retainer is good, but screws into neck from the front, so needs thick area at head end. I reduced this by using threaded inserts instead of screws.

Hipshot is the best. Feels like a conventional Tele bridge to use. Can be improved by using the ball races described here. String retainer screws onto end of neck, so no thick area needed. However it is very expensive, and can easily cost as much as the rest of the guitar and parts.

Grainger do a string retainer. Nice design which hides cut end of the string. However you have to cut the string to length before use. Since I use round core strings, which unwind if cut, I can’t use it.

Thanks! 
I have a lot of reading to do!

DartmoorHedgehog

Roland said:

hollywoodrox said:

That is so cool ,well done you are very skilled 

There’s not that much skill. It’s mainly buying the right tools, and having plenty of time to play with them since I retired.

I don't know - I think you're putting yourself down there. I know a solid-bodied guitar is not in the same league construction-wise as an acoustic, but having made a couple of solid fretted instruments myself I'm impressed with how "professional" your builds look. If I saw one of yours in a shop it wouldn't look out of place. One of mine would look a bit of a joke, although I'm happy with them functionally.  Definitely a good bit of skill involved in your work.

paulnb57

@Roland ;;
Ive bitten the bullet and just ordered a Hipshot headless bridge and tailpiece….

The price was buttock clenching…..

Ill start a new post sometime to record the madness!….

Thanks for your advice…

Gizmo

Roland said:

@paulnb57 I’m thinking of doing a separate thread on bridge/tuners. That’s unlikely to happen before Christmas.

I've been though a few myself so i can chip in my 2p worth on them (bass and guitar unit's)  We did have a trhead over at the SS.org build section with headless HW feedback and reviews

https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/hardware-for-headless-build.341920/

paulnb57 said:

@Roland ;;
Ive bitten the bullet and just ordered a Hipshot headless bridge and tailpiece….

The price was buttock clenching…..

Ill start a new post sometime to record the madness!….

Thanks for your advice…

Which Hipshot unit did you drop on trem or fixed ? (i have the headless 6 trem (CNC'ed my own headpiece) prices are as you say somewhat unplesant....

paulnb57

Gizmo said:

Roland said:

@paulnb57 I’m thinking of doing a separate thread on bridge/tuners. That’s unlikely to happen before Christmas.

I've been though a few myself so i can chip in my 2p worth on them (bass and guitar unit's)  We did have a trhead over at the SS.org build section with headless HW feedback and reviews

https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/hardware-for-headless-build.341920/

paulnb57 said:

@Roland ;;
Ive bitten the bullet and just ordered a Hipshot headless bridge and tailpiece….

The price was buttock clenching…..

Ill start a new post sometime to record the madness!….

Thanks for your advice…

Which Hipshot unit did you drop on trem or fixed ? (i have the headless 6 trem (CNC'ed my own headpiece) prices are as you say somewhat unplesant....

Fixed and Low Profile headpiece….

Gizmo

paulnb57 said:

Fixed and Low Profile headpiece….

not to derail the thread but...it's a bit crazy but last time i looked the fixed unit's were 1/3 more the cost of the trem units! i got my trem from a ebay US seller (something sporting goods i can't recall the full name) i've been trying to track down a 7 string unit but no joy (atleast at a cost im willing to pay)

Iim toying with picking up one of the guyker fixed hipshot clones for £50 from amazon(YT review says there all brass and well machined) Im just about to slap the trem version of their copy on a baritone 27" holdsworth alike build im just planning out, i'll see how that holds up in use first though.

Roland

paulnb57 said:

@Roland ;;
Ive bitten the bullet and just ordered a Hipshot headless bridge and tailpiece….

Even with the Hipshot It’s worth getting a set of these https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/237831/psa-10-minute-8-massive-improvement-to-headless-bridges