Gigging and sound trouble...

PolarityMan

PolarityMan said:

I noticed on a couple of recent gig videos 

Cabicular said:

Don't forget how quickly your ears get tired as well
Record it and see if it ACTUALLY changes

PolarityMan

Danny1969 said:

Mid and higher frequencies are directional so you will always hear the change when people move in front of the speaker. 

The answer is always have the amps mic'ed up no matter how small the gig and make sure the PA speakers are above head height of even tall people as you get the same  effect otherwise when someone stands in front of a PA speaker

Ideal situation for Front of House mix is small cab low on floor mic'ed up or direct linked via Radial or similar  and then monitored with in ears by performer but  there's cost involved and it's a more complicated setup

I'd honestly love to but we'd need to invest more in our PA.

Cabicular

PolarityMan;432001" said:

PolarityMan said:

I noticed on a couple of recent gig videos 










Cabicular said:

Don't forget how quickly your ears get tired as well

Record it and see if it ACTUALLY changes

I was responding to the op

Bod

Cabicular said:

Don't forget how quickly your ears get tired as well
Record it and see if it ACTUALLY changes

Yeah, that's something I've been considering too.  One of the benefits of playing pubs with an e-kit is that there's no real need for ear protection as the overall stage level is a lot quieter, but I have considered wearing plugs (of the ear variety - back off Beavis!) anyway...

impmann

We have found that having a deafening backline has lead to all manner of nasty problems in terms of balance and quality of sound. Its not helped by a bass player who constantly turns his rig up...

Therefore we invested heavily in a new PA - we already had a soundman and so after much negotiation, I managed to persuade folks to 1) use smaller amps and 2) turn down, so that we can pull the monitors up if needed so we don't end up in a fight for SPL. We don't quite use 5w amps (we have a splashy acoustic drummer) but 15w will do fine (my HRD struggles to be quiet enough).

It has worked in part - persuading the f'ing bass player to stop bringing his big cab and to keep turning up is a constant fight. We do sound a *lot* better for it and we don't have so many feedback issues with the monitors having to be more than flat out to get over the backline. 

I know a lot of guitarists get really precious about their big cabs and big amps, moving shed-loads of air - but the fact remains that playing small to medium venues, in view of the restrictions in some venues over SPL, these leviathons are total overkill. And the age old thing about the 100w amp can be turned down - yes it can, but in my experience few guitarists genuinely *do* and then when they do they complain about it losing "that sound". A small amp, driven a bit and mic'd, *IF DONE WELL* sounds great is so much better for control - and when you have control over the sound and mix, the audience have a better night, because they can hear the band better. As a caveat, I'd say you *do* need a sound engineer to get the best from such a set up as the headroom isn't there to push solos etc.

I know there will loads of guys who will now rush to say I'm talking shit - and that they need that 100w amp for the "authority" of sound etc... OK maybe for certain kinds of music. But for covers in the pub, it is the future - the noise restrictions are going to get worse as time goes by (certainly in the near 30 years I've been gigging the restrictions have got tougher and tougher) and if you are having problems with sound/volume/tone etc, then I'd recommend trying it and learn to work with it.

Oh and for the record - you can play energetic punk, ska and new wave in this way. We do.

ICBM

Danny1969 said:

Unless you have an amp shaped like a stage monitor it's gonna look a bit strange specially if you use a 4 x 12"  :~0

Plus the audience then have to listen to the rear of your cab and that's not gonna be a great sound. That's what I hate about bands using wedge monitors in small venues, from an audience perspective they sound awful as the audience only hears the rear of them

Nice idea in principle though, the Eagles used to have their amps almost offstage and facing away for some of the reasons you mention 

Bruce Springsteen uses a pair of Marshall 4x12"s lying almost on their backs. It does look odd but it's probably the best way of making sure no-one anywhere in the venue is either in the direct beam or behind the cab! You're going to need to be on Bruce-sized stages for it to be possible though…

I understand the attraction of putting everything through the PA, but in small venues - ie anywhere the drum kit is completely unmic'ed - I still prefer to use the PA as little as possible, ideally for vocals and acoustic instruments only, both FOH and in the monitors. There's just no way around the problem of an acoustic drum kit being so much louder than the other instruments until you get to the sort of venue size where you need to mic it as well, and I just think it sounds more natural not to have anything mic'ed unless everything is, if that makes sense. I know getting the mix perfect and even throughout the room is never going to be possible like that, but I just prefer the 'live in a common space' vibe it has.