XL Bully Dogs.........

Dominic

I'm a serious dog lover and animal lover in general .
I have 6 dogs and a pet Fox who behaves like a dog.
I AM CERTAINLY NOT ANTI-DOG but I just hate these things as well as the similar / part bred legal side-step mutations of the same type designed to permit imbeciles to legally harbour a dangerous animal .
I have read of the horrific attacks in the papers and seen some video but for the first time I actually saw one of these things last week ,fortunately chained to the Road Man Owner and it was one of the most aggressive and nastiest creatures on four legs that I've seen outside of a Safari Park.The owner perfectly fitted the stereotype and stank of weed from 30 paces away.
I appreciate the argument that it's about the owner not the dog but ,frankly , I question why a true dog lover would want one as a pet in the first place ........they are about as loveable as an Hyena.
These things need to be banned /destroyed (as well as the owners )....they are not safe to be in the public domain ; it's not just the human threat,child deaths etc but the number of poor dog-lovers who are now scared to walk their normal loving pets in parks, wasteland or even their own gardens when there is one of these things in the neighbourhood.

theatreanchor

What is the attraction of these sorts of breeds? Is it something to do with looking like a hard man?

Dominic

I'm sure there's an element of machismo but I think it's the same mentality as people who have a fascination for Guns and ,of course, the Enforcer element of collecting your drug deal money or fighting off other mal-intents .
No doubt some are kept purely for dog-fighting or as a breeding machine to make money from other arseholes.

Sassafras

Just tell the police you saw them attack an old lady. The armed response unit'll take care of things.

digitalscream

Genetic changes have absolutely no effect in UK law, because the law doesn't decide the breed by genetics (in fact, as demonstrated by Belfast City Council, the law will actively dismiss DNA evidence of breed in favour of head measurements).

And...it's been demonstrated time and time again that even those exact same dogs bred and trained for fighting can be rehabilitated. See the dogs rescued from Michael Vick's fighting ring - not one had a bite incident for the rest of their lives after they were taken.

In the 80s, everybody was saying all of the exact same things about GSDs. In the 90s, it was Rottweilers. In the 2010s it was huskies, Malamutes and Akitas.

I still maintain that the solution is not whack-a-mole banning breeds here and there according to the media's whims; it's prosecuting the owners exactly as though they committed the crime.

Tannin

In any civilised society they would simply be put down.

(Dunno what you do with all the ownerless dogs left over after that though.)

Dominic

Well,I've got a Mother-in-Law who can be a bit of a nuisance so if you're sure that'll do the trick then I'll set it up 
......Hopefully the armed response are half way through a tea break when they get the call
Seems like a WIN/WIN situation

Jo-to-po

It's a tricky one. We had this with staffies 10-15 years ago, didn't we? As with staffies then, this breed is the flavour of the month for the arsehole who wants to look hard. Unlike staffies, however, these things are built like brick shithouses.

Axe_meister

Staffies are no longer considered "hard" enough, because so many have been rehomed by responsible owners and have turned out to be complete sweeties when handled right.
I've seen quite a few people with these XLs and even the biggest strongest looking have problems handling the strength of these things, let alone a very petit woman I saw the other day who could not even handle a puppy version of the dog.

Haych

Dominic said:

I appreciate the argument that it's about the owner not the dog but........

See, you say this, and my sister often comes out with the same thing "there's no such thing as a bad dog......."

But, whenever reports of dog attacks hit the news and somebody is mauled or even killed by a dog, it's always a certain kind of dog involved, they are always the big, aggressive breeds or cross breeds known to have a dodgy temperament.  

Rarely, if ever, do you ever hear of a child being mauled by an Old English Sheep Dog, or a granny being attacked by a dangerously out of control Red Setter. 

Ironically, my sister was recently attacked by that very same kind of dog with a typical Roadman on the other end of the lead.

Dominic

digitalscream said:

Genetic changes have absolutely no effect in UK law, because the law doesn't decide the breed by genetics (in fact, as demonstrated by Belfast City Council, the law will actively dismiss DNA evidence of breed in favour of head measurements).

And...it's been demonstrated time and time again that even those exact same dogs bred and trained for fighting can be rehabilitated. See the dogs rescued from Michael Vick's fighting ring - not one had a bite incident for the rest of their lives after they were taken.

In the 80s, everybody was saying all of the exact same things about GSDs. In the 90s, it was Rottweilers. In the 2010s it was huskies, Malamutes and Akitas.

I still maintain that the solution is not whack-a-mole banning breeds here and there according to the media's whims; it's prosecuting the owners exactly as though they committed the crime.

No.....I have huge experience of large powerful dogs ...I bred and showed Irish Wolfhounds for 30 years and I have been closely involved with Kangals and Malamutes .....I also foster a neighbours Akita when they go on holiday.
This is totally different.
Kangals are a shepherd , Malamutes are a draught Dog , Wolfhounds are a Hunting Hound ......all derived for a purpose .
The only derivation of these monstrosities is a consciously genetic bred fighting machine.
There's lots of dog breeds with a POTENTIAL  to inflict huge damage but the WHOLE PURPOSE of these monstrosities is to do exactly that.....................That's a HUGE difference.
There is no worthwhile point or purpose in them .
I'm sure if I had a puppy XL it would be as docile as Spaniel but that's not the point.
My friend ,an extremely experienced Wolfhound breeder had a dog that would and tried to kill 2 humans ....it's unknown in the breed.....when euthanised it was found to have a brain-tumour.The potential for damage was huge.
Keeping one of these Bullies is no different to keeping TNT in the kitchen cupboard .......it serves no purpose ,it's volatile and one day there is a chance it will go off of it's own accord...............it's just a pointless risk with awful consequences .

mikeyrob73

the XL Bully is just the latest dog to be blamed for everything, Staffies, Rotties, GSD etc have all been classed as " devil dogs" previously. 
The owners need to held responsible as its a status symbol, lets start prosecuting the owners, your dog attacks someone, the owner gets an assault /attempted manslaughter charge.  Start dealing with these scrotes properly 

Dominic

Jo-to-po said:

It's a tricky one. We had this with staffies 10-15 years ago, didn't we? As with staffies then, this breed is the flavour of the month for the arsehole who wants to look hard. Unlike staffies, however, these things are built like brick shithouses.

True enough
Staffie = Pistol
XL Bully = Howitzer
There's a whole dimension of difference in the damage potential

digitalscream

Axe_meister said:

I've seen quite a few people with these XLs and even the biggest strongest looking have problems handling the strength of these things, let alone a very petit woman I saw the other day who could not even handle a puppy version of the dog.

One problem is that people wildly underestimate canine strength - I'm a 16st not-particularly-weak bloke, and our 7st Akita has enough pulling power that it takes all of my strength to stop her when she's decided it's go-time (usually a sheep issue). Even a Westie has enough strength and four-wheel-drive to pull someone off-balance if they're not paying attention, which is why it drives me absolutely nuts that you see people walking their dogs while on the phone, usually with an extendable lead that gives them zero control.

Dog ownership is inherently risky. If people can't think that through, then the law should be used to make it absolutely clear - transfer all of the risk to the owner, and if a dog attacks somebody then it's GBH. If it kills somebody, then its a manslaughter/murder charge. It won't take many "normal" people going to jail for 20 years to make people think twice before buying that cute puppy or that status dog.

tony99

mikeyrob73 said:

the XL Bully is just the latest dog to be blamed for everything, Staffies, Rotties, GSD etc have all been classed as " devil dogs" previously. 
The owners need to held responsible as its a status symbol, lets start prosecuting the owners, your dog attacks someone, the owner gets an assault /attempted manslaughter charge.  Start dealing with these scrotes properly 

It's true, the dogs get stigmatised when it's the owners whom should be punished.

The Birmingham video is bloody horrific though, poor guy in the petrol station, fair play to the lads who tried to help him.

ROOG

I am easily drawn in by stereo types and as a result I am very weary of any powerful looking dog, Recent attacks in my neighborhood have been loose dogs attacking other dogs whether they be on a lead or not. In both cases I know of, the injuries' sustained by the dog victims were horrific, the authorities did nothing after all both victims survived, perhaps this is a measure of how acceptable behavior is! "Well they survived didn't they, what's your problem?"

For me any dog can be dangerous to a child and that's why we keep our placid Cockerpoos on a lead when out in public, but the power of these XL creatures means that if they do loose the plot the damage they could do could be much worse, I struggle to see how allowing these dogs in public is a reasonable risk. (but hey there are idiots behind the wheel and they continue to be a hazard too!)    

Chalky

digitalscream said:

Genetic changes have absolutely no effect in UK law, because the law doesn't decide the breed by genetics (in fact, as demonstrated by Belfast City Council, the law will actively dismiss DNA evidence of breed in favour of head measurements).

And...it's been demonstrated time and time again that even those exact same dogs bred and trained for fighting can be rehabilitated. See the dogs rescued from Michael Vick's fighting ring - not one had a bite incident for the rest of their lives after they were taken.

In the 80s, everybody was saying all of the exact same things about GSDs. In the 90s, it was Rottweilers. In the 2010s it was huskies, Malamutes and Akitas.

I still maintain that the solution is not whack-a-mole banning breeds here and there according to the media's whims; it's prosecuting the owners exactly as though they committed the crime.

So wait till the dog attacks a child, or mauls a child, or disfigures a child, or kills a child, and then prosecute the owners?  That's plain stupid.

Prosecute the owners up front?  They'll just boast about that as if it is a badge of courage.

Treat dangerous breeds like guns - ban them, do whatever you need to get them off the streets.

S56035

I think Dominic is right in what he says about them being bread for causing damage (at least that's how it looks to me) so should be treated different but I also totally agree with the idea of putting the punishment on the owner.  We don't sentence knives to death but we do sanction those that use them to cut people instead of food.

Dominic

tony99 said:

mikeyrob73 said:

the XL Bully is just the latest dog to be blamed for everything, Staffies, Rotties, GSD etc have all been classed as " devil dogs" previously. 
The owners need to held responsible as its a status symbol, lets start prosecuting the owners, your dog attacks someone, the owner gets an assault /attempted manslaughter charge.  Start dealing with these scrotes properly 

It's true, the dogs get stigmatised when it's the owners whom should be punished.

The Birmingham video is bloody horrific though, poor guy in the petrol station, fair play to the lads who tried to help him.

If you watch that clip carefully there's a sadly ironic  bit where the chap wielding the stick to hit the dog accidently hits the victim amidst the panic

Dominic

Tannin said:

In any civilised society they would simply be put down.

(Dunno what you do with all the ownerless dogs left over after that though.)

What a shame you cant give a LOL and a Wisdom at the same time 

Kilgore

digitalscream said:

Genetic changes have absolutely no effect in UK law, because the law doesn't decide the breed by genetics (in fact, as demonstrated by Belfast City Council, the law will actively dismiss DNA evidence of breed in favour of head measurements).

And...it's been demonstrated time and time again that even those exact same dogs bred and trained for fighting can be rehabilitated. See the dogs rescued from Michael Vick's fighting ring - not one had a bite incident for the rest of their lives after they were taken.

In the 80s, everybody was saying all of the exact same things about GSDs. In the 90s, it was Rottweilers. In the 2010s it was huskies, Malamutes and Akitas.

I still maintain that the solution is not whack-a-mole banning breeds here and there according to the media's whims; it's prosecuting the owners exactly as though they committed the crime.

Small comfort if your kid as been mauled to death by one. 

Ban them. There are hundreds of other dog breeds to choose from.