Poopot's Cover Challenge #25 - the letter L

flying_pie

IMC1980 said:

thecolourbox said:

I forgot to say in my comment that I've emailed it in

Yes can imagine your voice singing that one! You'll be pleased to know I'm not attending sing that lol

I can't find my original file to add some better dynamics so have just sent the audio in as it is

Nice, looking forward to hearing it mate

And you can now hear @thecolourbox in the playlist

thecolourbox

Thank you

Habanero

Very nice @thecolourbox! That version would be a bit high for anyone to sing.

thecolourbox

Habanero said:

Very nice @thecolourbox! That version would be a bit high for anyone to sing.

Thanks - ah yes it was pitched for string quartet range rather than any vocals!

Incidentally it has reminded me why we didn't go with a piano version of that in the end and had to go with Don't Stop Believing instead - because Birmingham city registrars would not allow it due to the "religious connotations". Honestly

IMC1980

thecolourbox said:

Habanero said:

Very nice @thecolourbox! That version would be a bit high for anyone to sing.

Thanks - ah yes it was pitched for string quartet range rather than any vocals!

Incidentally it has reminded me why we didn't go with a piano version of that in the end and had to go with Don't Stop Believing instead - because Birmingham city registrars would not allow it due to the "religious connotations". Honestly

Very nice take on it, just wish it was longer! Birmingham City Council sound like a right bunch of hand wringing, box ticking killjoys.... 

Habanero

thecolourbox said:

Thanks - ah yes it was pitched for string quartet range rather than any vocals!

Incidentally it has reminded me why we didn't go with a piano version of that in the end and had to go with Don't Stop Believing instead - because Birmingham city registrars would not allow it due to the "religious connotations". Honestly

The Sodajerker songwriting podcast had an episode with Steve Perry, and that song has nothing to do with religion.

thecolourbox

I've only done a few weddings in Birmingham on my piano side hustle but yes, that's a good description of them! Worcestershire also can be a bit picky. If there's any vaguely religion related words, even though I'm only doing instrumental ie no lyrics to be heard, then get  bit funny. Halos, prayers,  angels, its mad.

I will try again to look for the original midi/cubase file to see if I can extend it at some point. Although, the whole bridgerton soundtrack is basically that concept so probably won't sound as original as it might have done:)

idiotwind

It's UK law for civil ceremonies - they have to be completely secular. Whether a particular piece of music is religious or not is up to the registrar though. 

flying_pie

thecolourbox said:

Habanero said:

Very nice @thecolourbox! That version would be a bit high for anyone to sing.

Thanks - ah yes it was pitched for string quartet range rather than any vocals!

Incidentally it has reminded me why we didn't go with a piano version of that in the end and had to go with Don't Stop Believing instead - because Birmingham city registrars would not allow it due to the "religious connotations". Honestly

Wow. Given the lyrics refer to hanging on to life and barely getting by it's not exactly a ringing endorsement for religion. Ludicrous.

And that key works fine for vocals that fit the arrangement. I might well record some to prove it!

thecolourbox

idiotwind said:

It's UK law for civil ceremonies - they have to be completely secular. Whether a particular piece of music is religious or not is up to the registrar though. 

Yeah I have to break that news quite a lot to couples when I'm playing ceremonies on piano - there are sometimes ways around it like "Oh you want Bach/Gounod's Ave Maria, hmmm, you can't have that, but can I interest you in Bach's Prelude in C instead perhaps" etc etc. 

But yes it's the registrars influence that annoys me, they aren't acting out the rules really. Birmingham and Worcestershire are fussy, Warwickshire don't even ask what music is being played during the ceremony. So God knows (pardon the pun) what they'd do if I started blasting out a hymn as the bride was walking down. "Why are you playing "Guide me O thou Great Reedemer" in a secular service?" "Au contraire, Registrar! I'm actually playing the "Victor Meldrew Honda Mechanics song, honesty..."

I can understand them not wanting me to belt out Give me Oil in My Lamp or whatever, but Beyonce's Halo, The Cure's Just Like Heaven or even bloody Anti Christ Superstar (ok maybe that one is a bit), surely they can see they aren't religious songs.

Anyway, I'll stop distracting from the main thread (unless anybody wants to do a cover of Lord of the Dance...)

Habanero

So I have a general question for you all. As a total amateur I've mostly learned all my mixing and mastering from a YouTube channel "The Band Guide".

He reckons to mix with a target of -3dB, export that mix, and then master it aiming for volume levels in LUFS. My problem is that using a Gain plugin in the K contest achieved only about -18LUFS at which point the Logic loudness meter was into the yellow zone. I understand for Soundcloud -8 to -13 is a guide, but have no idea how to achieve that.

I notice my K entry was quieter than most, so what do you all do? Do I simply boost to the LUFS and ignore the Logic volume meter?

flying_pie

@thecolourbox let us know what the response is if you are ever asked to play Jesus He Knows Me by Genesis. That would be a fantastic litmus test

On the subject of secular vs religious songs... Many years ago my wife was asked to sing at a friend's daughter's christening in Wales. I ended up playing guitar for her and the song they chose was Kate Rusby's Underneath The Stars. I've only just looked at the words and realised how ill-fitting a choice it is for a small child even if it is a beautiful song. Clearly people don't bother to understand the songs and only go with either the title and/or the melody - also see every inappropriate use of Good Riddance (time of your life) by Green Day.

Anyway... Fast forward to the after service drinks at the family home and I ended up being the guitarist for hire for a lengthy sing along - hence why I mentioned to being in Wales. I was asked to sing/play something and as I'd been drinking I went with Tenacious D's Fuck Her Gently. It went down far to well to the point that by the time we got to the busy hotel bar in the evening I was basically playing it on a loop ... And the bar manager approached us...

"Hey, were you just playing Tenacious D?"....

 "No. Definitely not. It wasn't us"...

"Yes you were. I fucking love that song. Play it again!"

thecolourbox

flying_pie said:

Anyway... Fast forward to the after service drinks at the family home and I ended up being the guitarist for hire for a lengthy sing along - hence why I mentioned to being in Wales. I was asked to sing/play something and as I'd been drinking I went with Tenacious D's Fuck Her Gently. 

I have had to play that on piano for a wedding booking! Admittedly not on a ceremony, but during a wedding breakfast. Half the room (ie mostly the guests aged around 40 ish) all turned one by one to give me a knowing look and grin, the other half of the room (those under 30 and over say 50 ish) were completely oblivious as to them it was just a fairly standard sounding tune on piano

stratman3142

Habanero said:

So I have a general question for you all. As a total amateur I've mostly learned all my mixing and mastering from a YouTube channel "The Band Guide".

He reckons to mix with a target of -3dB, export that mix, and then master it aiming for volume levels in LUFS. My problem is that using a Gain plugin in the K contest achieved only about -18LUFS at which point the Logic loudness meter was into the yellow zone. I understand for Soundcloud -8 to -13 is a guide, but have no idea how to achieve that.

I notice my K entry was quieter than most, so what do you all do? Do I simply boost to the LUFS and ignore the Logic volume meter?

Does Logic have a setting that allows LUFS to be displayed as well as peak or RMS. Reaper has a setting that allows LUFS to be displayed. But I like to use the Youlean Loudness Meter (link below). I've got the paid version, but there's a free version as well.

https://youlean.co/youlean-loudness-meter/

I also use the 'Master Assist' in Ozone 9 to help with getting the required levels.

thecolourbox

@Habanero a good question/topic to ask about and I'd also be interested in learning more. My recordings on here often sound noticeably quieter than others as well, obviously it's not a problem when I'm listening to my own stuff in isolation (and that's where most of my music gets heard) but alongside others in a playlist it's not ideal. 
I've just this last week moved to a proper computer rather than my awful laptop, and that has also meant I can use a better version of Cubase than my laptop could handle, I've had the licence for a few years but never used it. I don't know if this was something that was missing on the old version, or whether the screen was just too small to see it (I can use an actual monitor now woohoo) but there's a little peak level thing underneath the output track on the mixer which tells me the current peak volume and clicking it resets it, for when I reduce some volumes or whack the limiter up a bit. That's been quite useful, and i've already re-done pretty much every finished track I've ever made to be a louder general volume, I've no idea if they are the proper value or not and I don't know what LUFS is in a month of Sundays, but I think that just illustrates my lack of knowledge and also the haphazard skittish approach I enjoy using to record...

Habanero

stratman3142 said:

Habanero said:

So I have a general question for you all. As a total amateur I've mostly learned all my mixing and mastering from a YouTube channel "The Band Guide".

He reckons to mix with a target of -3dB, export that mix, and then master it aiming for volume levels in LUFS. My problem is that using a Gain plugin in the K contest achieved only about -18LUFS at which point the Logic loudness meter was into the yellow zone. I understand for Soundcloud -8 to -13 is a guide, but have no idea how to achieve that.

I notice my K entry was quieter than most, so what do you all do? Do I simply boost to the LUFS and ignore the Logic volume meter?

Does Logic have a setting that allows LUFS to be displayed as well as peak or RMS. Reaper has a setting that allows LUFS to be displayed. But I like to use the Youlean Loudness Meter (link below). I've got the paid version, but there's a free version as well.

I also use Ozone 9 on the Master to Compress/Limit things.

https://youlean.co/youlean-loudness-meter/

Yes that free Youlean meter is the plugin I'm using as suggested on the YouTube channel. My issue seems to be boosting that reading seems to conflict with what the simple Logic 'traffic light' volume meter is indicating.

stratman3142

Habanero said:

Yes that free Youlean meter is the plugin I'm using as suggested on the YouTube channel. My issue seems to be boosting that reading seems to conflict with what the simple Logic 'traffic light' volume meter is indicating.

What does the Logic traffic light indicator relate to? Is it peak level?  If so I assume that needs to be below the red. You can use compression and limiting to pull back the peak level whilst boosting the the LUFS. Obviously, using your ears to check things are sounding OK.

flying_pie

stratman3142 said:

Habanero said:

So I have a general question for you all. As a total amateur I've mostly learned all my mixing and mastering from a YouTube channel "The Band Guide".

He reckons to mix with a target of -3dB, export that mix, and then master it aiming for volume levels in LUFS. My problem is that using a Gain plugin in the K contest achieved only about -18LUFS at which point the Logic loudness meter was into the yellow zone. I understand for Soundcloud -8 to -13 is a guide, but have no idea how to achieve that.

I notice my K entry was quieter than most, so what do you all do? Do I simply boost to the LUFS and ignore the Logic volume meter?

Does Logic have a setting that allows LUFS to be displayed as well as peak or RMS. Reaper has a setting that allows LUFS to be displayed. But I like to use the Youlean Loudness Meter (link below). I've got the paid version, but there's a free version as well.

https://youlean.co/youlean-loudness-meter/

I also use the 'Master Assist' in Ozone 9 to help with getting the required levels.

I use multiple stages in mastering and tend to up the gain a little in each - usually have compression, EQ, then multi-band compression.

I then use a limiter with an LUFS meter after it.  The limiter boosts the overall volume without clipping and it's basically like having a compressor at the end stage. This makes the biggest effect. It's usually easy to get it loud enough without too much overall compression. It's also important not to overlook the individual tracks before mastering - I make sure they're nowhere too loud but also not too quiet.

There are loads of different ways to approach it and that's just my process for the time being.

But the most useful last step is to have a reference audio - either an mp3/streaming site and consistent volume settings on the player and your speaker/headphones, and use your ears. I didn't do that and the.realised that I rushed the master for L just to put something in the playlist. In my case it's a volume of 12 on my car stereo while driving to work that identifies any major issues!

I have since replaced the file. I think it's still maybe a touch quiet but I also need to sort out a couple of issues with the vocal track being too dynamic in places so I'll let me ears rest for bit before I fix that.

Habanero

stratman3142 said:

What does the Logic traffic light indicator relate to? Is it peak level?  If so I assume that needs to be below the red. You can use compression and limiting to pull back the peak level whilst boosting the the LUFS. Obviously, using your ears to check things are sounding OK.

I reckon you're right and the traffic light is a peak meter. Maybe I should aim for the LUFS level (in the L round), and just make sure I'm not hitting the red zone for peak.

mrkb

I just use the Izotope mastering VST and scroll through the presets until I like the sound. Then render to MP3.