Is this guitar original?

Wolfetone

Never having owned a Tele of this era, I need the opinion of a Telecaster expert. I know that you are lurking out there somewhere!

I had an opportunity to inspect my new telecaster in the daylight for the first time. I understand that some of the Fender stuff from the mid-seventies wasn't the best but I notice a few paint blemishes that I can't believe would have made it passed QC. I also wonder about the neck plate which looks a little mottled.

Is there someone with a similar vintage'd guitar that could give me an opinion? If I take the neck/control plate off, what should I see?

ICBM

Wolfetone said:

I understand that some of the Fender stuff from the mid-seventies wasn't the best but I notice a few paint blemishes that I can't believe would have made it passed QC.

You haven't seen too many 70s Fenders then . I'm not even sure they *had* QC by 1977…

Looks OK to me, although I don't think the case is original.

The best way to check the authenticity of the body is a good clear straight-on shot of the front. Only Fender made them the wrong shape after 1972 .

The pot codes will confirm it, but obviously only if they're original. They should read 13777**, or maybe 13776** if it's an early '77.

Wolfetone

Thanks ICBM. I will take some more shots. 

Should there be any stampings in the neck pocket or anywhere on the body? I think you're right about the case although doing a bit of Googling, there appear to be quite a few other Fenders with exactly the same case! 

Stay tuned....

ICBM

The latches should be nickel-plated not brass, and the handle looks too modern.

There are usually inspection stickers and date stamps in the neck pocket and on the heel of the neck - they don't always match closely, they may be up to months apart, that's normal - and sometimes even on the back of the pickguard.

GuitarMonkey

If it's 100% original, it should have a label with the serial number (same one as on the headstock!) in the neck pocket and also the same on the underside of the pickguard.

The pickups should be dated too. The bridge pickup should have a date stamp under the copper-plated baseplate,

Wolfetone

Here are a few more shots.

The plate actually on the guitar isn't original as the previous owner said that he'd had some trouble with the pots spinning around (they're loose!) although the knobs are original and the selector switch says 'Made in the USA' on it. The paintwork, as you can see is crappy compared to modern instruments but could this be the way they were?

jonnyburgo

Are they 50s style tuners? a bit hard to tell from here, can you do a headstock close up?

jonnyburgo

looks like it may be a refinish? the black looks a bit bumpy on the body, not that I'm an expert by any means

GuitarMonkey

The switch and capacitor may be original but neither pot is.

ICBM

The body is the right 'wrong' shape for a '77 - less deeply shaped between the neck and the strap button. Not certain about the finish but a lot of 70s ones are poor and it looks thick enough!

The pots are definitely not original and the wiring is a mess - it needs re-doing properly. The switch is original (or at least the right type). I would replace at least the volume with a new CTS.

A 70s Fender case would also have a logo badge in the lower front corner, above where the headstock is in the pic.

Wolfetone

jonnyburgo said:

looks like it may be a refinish? the black looks a bit bumpy on the body, not that I'm an expert by any means

The body is quite 'orange-peely' and not what I would think, even on the worst of days, a satisfactory job. 

GuitarMonkey

Did someone drill through the headstock (re)fitting a string guide?

I suspect the tuners are modern replacements as the shafts tend to be tarnished nickel on originals. I could be wrong but they look too shiny to me.

stonevibe

Tuners look correct.

The guitar looks like a typical late '70s Fender.

As already mentioned the wiring is not the original pots.

The case is not an original.

Was it a good deal?

ICBM

Wolfetone said:

The body is quite 'orange-peely' and not what I would think, even on the worst of days, a satisfactory job. There is also a lacquer crack at the pocket which appears to have been painted over.

That does look suspicious. They did often crack there, so if it's been painted over that would explain the thickness too.

Forget what you would consider "a satisfactory job even on the worst of days" though - every day was a worst day at Fender in the late 70s. Staff morale was rock-bottom and management were more interested in pleasing the corporate owners with profit figures than what musicians wanted. The good guitars they made during that period were more by accident than anything - the basic materials and components are OK, but they were put together without any real care.

GuitarMonkey

stonevibe said:

Tuners look correct.

Yes but they don't look to be nearly 40 years old.

It looks like it had different tuners on at some point too:

GuitarMonkey

Have you had the neck off yet?

Loobs

Interesting thread.

koneguitarist

ICBM said:

The latches should be nickel-plated not brass, and the handle looks too modern.

There are usually inspection stickers and date stamps in the neck pocket and on the heel of the neck - they don't always match closely, they may be up to months apart, that's normal - and sometimes even on the back of the pickguard.

Case looks right to me, guitar although pots being changed etc which is quite common looks right as well.

Wolfetone

re are more pics of the disassembled guitar. I went back to look at the Ebay description;

"

I got this about a year back as a trade in and it's a lovely sounding great paying guitar.   The neck is a bit slim for my liking and i've recently got another very different tele, and much as i love it i'm not playing  it much any more. It's in excellent condition for it's age - only played at home / rehearsal since i've had it.  the previous owner obviously  looked after it as there's not signs of heavy wear or use with the body having little more than surface marks, a bit of varnish  off the end of the headstock and the expected tarnishing of the metal parts. The control plate has been changed at some point  but all original parts are included, pots, switch and original knobs. Comes with vintage fender hard case in black. any questions, sound clips or anything you want message me. I paid £1750 for this which is why the starting price is high will ship but only in UK" There are no stickers in the neck pocket or numbers on the pick up. What do the initials 'JF' refer to?' What should my next move be? Send it back? Partial refund to cover the cost of a refinish? It's had a refret but the job was done quite poorly as the frets should have been taken out sideways not from the top as here. The neck plate is also strangely thin as you can see the 'F' impression on the other side.

Deadman

I bet it stinks of Hai Karate. Looks like the real deal to me.

koneguitarist

Looks to me like a early 80's case, which the guitar could be as well, 80-81 etc, my S8 Tele I bought brand new in 81-82 in The international series colour of Monaco yellow. Which only came out in 81.