Thumbs up! (Or not)

Jaycee

A

oh_pollo

B - there's usually a better solution.

DavidR

p90fool said:

Somewhere between D and E. I use my thumb all the time, it's the basis for everything for me in that I always have a root note available wherever I am. 

For example I play an F#maj7 where the thumb plays fret 2 on the 6th string 
1  6
2  6
3  6
4  4
5  x
6  2



I could just play a conventional F#maj7 but I like the addition of the higher voicing. I apply it to lots of different chords all over the neck, but I do have pretty big hands. (The pictured Loar LH300 has a huuuge neck btw)

Gosh that looks painful. Is that a hand or an octopus?

stickyfiddle

Tannin said:

^ Wow! Step outside and say that to a classical player!

I happily would. Obviously they're different disciplines but the only argument I've ever seen for never using your thumb seems to be based around it being "not proper" or some such. I just have no time for that sort of nonsense!

It's not like I'm saying everyone should use their thumb for everything that they ever could use it, but to say never is just as stupid.

lincolnblue

B - I only ever use my thumb when playing an F

ICBM

I did try once or twice, but the reason I don’t is simply that my hands are very small. To get a decent reach on the fretboard, I need my thumb too low on the back of the neck to get it round onto even the E string - and that’s even with a skinny neck. I don’t normally play fully ‘classical position’, although I will if I need to. My technique is based more on movement of barre and half-barre shapes than reaches, just because I don’t have the span.

Snags

C to D for me - depends on the song and style, but will quite often use the thumb for F-shape barre rather than going all the way over with my index finger. Also for, e.g. D/F# shapes.

However, it's not massively agile, so doesn't get used for much else (other than muting). I think there's something I used to play where I'd do a bass walk down with my thumb whilst the other chords changed that wasn't just simple barre, but I can't remember what the heck it was now.

Stuckfast

Somewhere between C and D for me. There are some chord voicings I use that need the thumb to fret the first or occasionally the first and second strings. I don't use it as part of scales and runs, though. 

mo6020

p90fool said:

Somewhere between D and E. I use my thumb all the time, it's the basis for everything for me in that I always have a root note available wherever I am. 

For example I play an F#maj7 where the thumb plays fret 2 on the 6th string 
1  6
2  6
3  6
4  4
5  x
6  2



I could just play a conventional F#maj7 but I like the addition of the higher voicing. I apply it to lots of different chords all over the neck, but I do have pretty big hands. (The pictured Loar LH300 has a huuuge neck btw)

Is that a child sized guitar or do you have absolutely enormous hands? 

p90fool

mo6020 said:

p90fool said:

Somewhere between D and E. I use my thumb all the time, it's the basis for everything for me in that I always have a root note available wherever I am. 

For example I play an F#maj7 where the thumb plays fret 2 on the 6th string 
1  6
2  6
3  6
4  4
5  x
6  2



I could just play a conventional F#maj7 but I like the addition of the higher voicing. I apply it to lots of different chords all over the neck, but I do have pretty big hands. (The pictured Loar LH300 has a huuuge neck btw)

Is that a child sized guitar or do you have absolutely enormous hands? 

@mo6020 ;   It's a pre-war style boat neck and the biggest neck on a steel string I've ever played, it's massive!

JonnyBgoode

stickyfiddle said:

Tannin said:

^ Wow! Step outside and say that to a classical player!

I happily would. Obviously they're different disciplines but the only argument I've ever seen for never using your thumb seems to be based around it being "not proper" or some such. I just have no time for that sort of nonsense!

That view is indeed  nonsense and IMO  is limited to those classical players who were poorly taught  *or* more likely  its simply one of the myths that seem to circulate on non-classical guitar forums to reinforce the idea that CG pedagogy is full of daft stuffy rules.

The classical guitar repertoire contains pieces that have the fretting hand thumb clearly indicated in the score. Giuliani springs to mind (and he is a pretty important figure in CG - as a composer, virtuoso and author of one of the first methods), also some baroque pieces will benefit from an occasional thumb fretted note.

It's much less common in modern repertoire, mainly because the modern classical guitar fretboard is wider than its predecessors, and as a basic default you get beginners to centre their thumb behind the neck opposing the fingers, but that doesn't mean thumb fretting is ruled out because its 'not proper'. 

So yeah I'm a classically trained  C/D I guess ;-)  As someone said earlier, if you play bluesy/folk fingerstyle its pretty essential. Currently working on several Tommy Emmanuel numbers, impossible without thumb fretting if you want to play the same notes he does.  John Mayer's stuff springs to mind too, can't play that very well without the thumb. Electric also - eg Hendrix.

Its all about the music and what is the best way to achieve an end.

mo6020

p90fool said:

@mo6020 ;   It's a pre-war style boat neck and the biggest neck on a steel string I've ever played, it's massive!

Wow 

GTC

A - however good you are and however big your hands are, you are putting yourself at a bio-mechanical disadvantage otherwise (i.e. you are not in a position to play as well as you possibly could).
However, there are some who can get away with it - and get away with it very well indeed.

DavidR

GTC said:

A - however good you are and however big your hands are, you are putting yourself at a bio-mechanical disadvantage otherwise (i.e. you are not in a position to play as well as you possibly could).
However, there are some who can get away with it - and get away with it very well indeed.

I find it quite comfortable actually.

I've always avoided huge stretches and tortuous chord shapes otherwise. About the most energetic I get is holding down an A chord with my index finger and then playing an A note at the 5th fret on the top E string with my lttle finger. Quite a common chord shape in Piedmont Blues with an easy change to A7. 

But generally I agree. If you play a lot and do extreme left hand positions towards the extremes of your limits you WILL get injured imho. What those limits are will vary from player to player.

Full barres are quite 'stretchy' for most people but they're rarely a huge feature of many pieces.

p90fool

GTC said:

A - however good you are and however big your hands are, you are putting yourself at a bio-mechanical disadvantage otherwise 

Surely that depends on what you're playing? Having your thumb behind the neck is a serious bio-mechanical disadvantage to bending strings, for example.

You certainly need it there for some things though, but I've always thought that there should be no rules, merely suggestions. 

 

guitarjack66

p90fool said:

GTC said:

A - however good you are and however big your hands are, you are putting yourself at a bio-mechanical disadvantage otherwise 

Surely that depends on what you're playing? Having your thumb behind the neck is a serious bio-mechanical disadvantage to bending strings, for example.

You certainly need it there for some things though, but I've always thought that there should be no rules, merely suggestions. 

 

Yes. If there are number of suggestions from players' experiences then one is most likely to work for somebody. It's very patronising for youtube guitar instructors with crane legged fingers telling us to do something 'this way' or 'that way' with our small and average sized hands.

guitarjack66

ICBM said:

I did try once or twice, but the reason I don’t is simply that my hands are very small. To get a decent reach on the fretboard, I need my thumb too low on the back of the neck to get it round onto even the E string - and that’s even with a skinny neck. I don’t normally play fully ‘classical position’, although I will if I need to. My technique is based more on movement of barre and half-barre shapes than reaches, just because I don’t have the span.

As a medium sized hand person I concur with your use of barres and part barres. This favours me too. Ironically I do prefer a meatier guitar neck though.

GTC

p90fool said:

GTC said:

A - however good you are and however big your hands are, you are putting yourself at a bio-mechanical disadvantage otherwise 

Surely that depends on what you're playing? Having your thumb behind the neck is a serious bio-mechanical disadvantage to bending strings, for example.

You certainly need it there for some things though, but I've always thought that there should be no rules, merely suggestions. 

 

Totally agree with your "no rules point" - it depends on what you are playing. However, if what you are playing does not require optimum freedom of the fretting fingers or if you find it easier to use your thumb on occasions then fine if it works for you.

I can't get my head around the bending strings disadvantage though. I've just tried it on a narrow necked acoustic (43mm nut width) and it just seems a whole lot easier with the thumb firmly on the back of the neck.

Dave_Mc

GTC said:

I can't get my head around the bending strings disadvantage though. I've just tried it on a narrow necked acoustic (43mm nut width) and it just seems a whole lot easier with the thumb firmly on the back of the neck.

It's way easier to bend strings and do wide vibrato with your thumb around the neck. It gives you something to push against. Almost everyone I ever see trying to bend and vibrato with their thumb on the back of the neck has weak vibrato and/or iffy bend intonation.

The ideal is to be able to quickly move between thumb-behind and thumb-around, depending on what exactly you're playing. In my opinion.

thomasross20

C/D 

Essential for those Tommy E fingerstyle tunes