$Million Sound System

roberty

@Bungle1 if you want to hear high end hifi then Spiritland in King's Cross would be my recommendation https://spiritland.com/location/spiritland-kings-cross/

prowla

It's interesting how a number of folks focus on the speakers.

The comment about UK room size is a good one.

viz

@roberty which PMCs have you got? I’m thinking of getting some. 

roberty

@viz PB1i's. I drove to Birmingham to pick them up from an eBay seller a few years back. They use the same mid and top as the IB1 as far as I can see but they have two 6.5" woofers to slim the baffle down

viz

Nice.

fretmeister

If a person is over 40 and their hearing is already on the entirely normal slippery slope downwards, is there any benefit?

It seems quite a bit like the fastest cars and so on. When people reach the point they can afford it, often their reflexes aren't good enough to get anywhere near the limits of the car. If they ever were in the first place.

fretmeister

Sporky said:

I don't know how far they can equalise dynamic response. I assume (I've not used anything like that - always did it methodically by ear) they can do something about phase?

I'm not convinced technology can always beat the physics. Physics is bigger and harder than me, and it wins every fight. Treating the room (which seems to be anathema to hifi people) is almost always the best and cheapest approach. To the point that we have a partner who does the measurements and treatment. 

This reminds me.

I must do something for my home office. There's a particularly annoying spot where the bass is unbearable even at sensible volumes. It's in the same place if bin lorries are in the street or there's roadworks.

viz

fretmeister said:

If a person is over 40 and their hearing is already on the entirely normal slippery slope downwards, is there any benefit?

Up to a point, because they might not have reached the level of system that they deserved when they were younger and poorer. 

I know I still deserve to spend more

fretmeister

viz said:

fretmeister said:

If a person is over 40 and their hearing is already on the entirely normal slippery slope downwards, is there any benefit?

Up to a point, because they might not have reached the level of system that they deserved when they were younger and poorer. 

I know I still deserve to spend more

I still want to get Gerald Marleaux to make me a custom bass from scratch and I certainly don't have the chops I did when I was younger! And it's certainly not that I've got more tasteful!

dindude

What about source material, does such a system restrict you to listening to stuff that has been beautifully recorded, if something was recorded at source using crap analog to digital conversion for example, this won’t improve it. And I’m pretty sure the solo from Sympathy for the Devil will still sound like nails down a blackboard on a £1m system.

In my ear-memory, the best sound I ever heard was when I payed in a band back in Uni days, we went to a residential studio in Wales (can’t remember what it’s called), with a pro engineer, and forget the music for the moment, the sound coming straight off 2” tape through massive pro monitors in a large treated control room was utterly epic. To this day, I prefer the sound of good studio monitors to “hi fi”. 

scrumhalf

I'd rather spend the money on a pretty damn good hi-fi and the rest of the million on content.

Or a couple of tickets for some stadium gigs. Not too many, obviously, as they are very pricey these days. 

richman6100

dindude said:

What about source material, does such a system restrict you to listening to stuff that has been beautifully recorded, if something was recorded at source using crap analog to digital conversion for example, this won’t improve it. And I’m pretty sure the solo from Sympathy for the Devil will still sound like nails down a blackboard on a £1m system.

This is a very valid point. Whenever I've auditioned HiFi gear over the years, I've deliberately taken a range of music that I know really well. This music includes great recordings, but more importantly in many ways, other music that holds a nostalgic/emotional connection for me which a) isn't the greatest sound quality and b) will really challenge speakers. There have been numerous occasions when I've initially been impressed with a pair of speakers, only to find them horribly fatiguing with less than stellar recordings, or fall apart with really challenging ones. It's literally why I own the speakers that I now do. There is little point in trying speakers with the kind of music that would flatter any model, unless that's all you listen to.

Too often, music used for demos at HiFi shows is of the highest sound quality. That's obviously understandable from a vendor's perspective, but I make sure a take some of my own tracks if I'm serious about auditioning something. Even at some high end shows, I've found retailers willing to give me some time to play my own music through their gear.

prowla

scrumhalf said:

I'd rather spend the money on a pretty damn good hi-fi and the rest of the million on content.

Or a couple of tickets for some stadium gigs. Not too many, obviously, as they are very pricey these days. 

I'm not a fan of stadium gigs - I like ones where I can see the performers; if I have to watch them on a screen then I might as well stay at home and watch telly.

richman6100 said:

dindude said:

What about source material, does such a system restrict you to listening to stuff that has been beautifully recorded, if something was recorded at source using crap analog to digital conversion for example, this won’t improve it. And I’m pretty sure the solo from Sympathy for the Devil will still sound like nails down a blackboard on a £1m system.

This is a very valid point. Whenever I've auditioned HiFi gear over the years, I've deliberately taken a range of music that I know really well. This music includes great recordings, but more importantly in many ways, other music that holds a nostalgic/emotional connection for me which a) isn't the greatest sound quality and b) will really challenge speakers. There have been numerous occasions when I've initially been impressed with a pair of speakers, only to find them horribly fatiguing with less than stellar recordings, or fall apart with really challenging ones. It's literally why I own the speakers that I now do. There is little point in trying speakers with the kind of music that would flatter any model, unless that's all you listen to.

Too often, music used for demos at HiFi shows is of the highest sound quality. That's obviously understandable from a vendor's perspective, but I make sure a take some of my own tracks if I'm serious about auditioning something. Even at some high end shows, I've found retailers willing to give me some time to play my own music through their gear.

I once got the Linn folks to play a Led Zeppelin album; it sounded pretty bad.

Sporky

I have some specific test tracks, and they include 128kbps MP3. Some of our customers care not a fig for FLAC.

Anything with a subwoofer gets subjected to Prisms by 65daysofstatic, which goes very, very deep, and has samples that cut not-on-the-zero-crossing. Any flub is exposed.

octatonic

Bungle1 said:

I was watching a Youtube video earlier from an Audiophile doing a 'rig rundown', visiting someone with a $million audio system (2 different ones actually) and gushing how incredible the music sounded through it. The owner was talking about music being more of an experience in it, including a Subwoofer (among many) where the primary reason for it being there is apparently its ability to influence the air pressure in the room. it struck me that almost nobody ever gets to experience that kind of set up - $60k DACs etc.  

If you wanted to have that experience, or as close as possible, what are your options? Seemed like the sort of thing where someone could start a business, rent out a room with some incredible sound system and let people come with their favourite albums and experience it. I'd definitely pay to do that, just for the experience.

Link for anyone who is interested:


Puts guitar gear GAS to shame really!

LOL.
A million dollars and they are playing it in a square room with thick shag carpet on the floor.
Audiophiles make me laugh.
No studio would do this.

I have active ATC's and I have Kii Three BXT's here.
With a system other than the Kii's then the thing that matters the most is the room.
It isn't the preamp or the power amp, or the fucking power cable.

With the Kii's and their active cardioid bass, the room matters less but I still spent quite a lot of money getting that as right as I could with the money that I had.

Some of the best sounding rooms are made Northward Acoustics, where the speakers are decoupled from the room.
They are worth checking out.
Definitely not family friendly but these are for mixing in.
But there are loads of people making good records in much less expensive studios.

For listening, it doesn't really matter.

The reason that studios are the way they are is we look for *neutrality* above all else.
Because translation matters- being able to have your mixes move from room to room, system to system with the minimal amount of compromise or issues arising from the mix.

It doesn't really make sense to, as a listener, duplicate the room of a mix or mastering engineer.
You don't need neutrality.

The number of audiophiles who *think* they can hear the difference between quite minimal components when it is really marketing and the physical look of a product that impacts just as much.

I did a test recently with some folks where I recorded a section of audio with £3000 converters and £100 converters and asked them to choose which was which and which one they preferred. It was roughly 50-50. No one could tell the cheaper converters from the more expensive ones.

In the living rooms I have £500 B&W speakers and either a Rocksan or Denon amplifier.
They are fine.
Yes, the studio sounds better but that is because the room is better and you can hear the improvements.

Putting £5k+ of electronics in a room that doesn't have enough bass trapping is just dumb, imho.
It is like putting Wagyu beef in a hotdog.
What is the point?

Reverend

digitalscream said:

The most I've ever experienced is my uncle's hi-fi setup - he assembled it himself, and designed and made his own speaker cabinets. It's an utterly insane system, just the amps, DACs, turntable etc are easily £70-80k in today's money, and the speakers would probably add another £30k to that. It blew my mind back in the 80s and 90s as he was gradually upgrading it - there are six drivers in each cab, each for a separate frequency range, and each pair has a separate amp. Bonkers, but I can't deny that it sounds great.

Thing is, on going back and hearing it again a few years ago, it struck me that it wasn't that much better than Tannoy studio monitors in my office, driven by a cheap Denon amp - the primary difference being that my room is treated to be very flat and free of reflections (not much in the way of bass traps, but still...that wasn't the main goal), and his isn't because like most audiophiles he believes it's all about the signal path and nothing to do with the environment.

Both give great detail, both are a great listening experience, but one cost about 0.1% of the other. And mine sounds better at low volume, his has to be wound up to sound good. And, if I'm being totally honest, my Sennheiser Momentum 3 earbuds sound better than both of them in every way.

As any musician knows, the environment can shape the sound hugely, 

digitalscream

Reverend said:

As any musician knows, the environment can shape the sound hugely, 

Only when it comes to hi-fi and studio use. Otherwise, it's all about the gear maaaaaan....

Grumpyrocker

Even with the money I don't want a room looking that cluttered with massive speakers. 

I expect you can get 99 percent of the way there for the fraction of the cost anyway. 

barnstorm

Got served an ad for this today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1M5qQnIjfI

Grumpyrocker

I don't get why folks want to clutter up their house with massive speakers that look like it should have been on stage next to Free at the Isle of White festival.