Looking for a good quality acoustic, up to £750ish

Hotshot1999

@willo Have a look at my Larrivee in the classifieds.

Dave_Mc

Tannin said:

You'll probably not have quite enough for (in alphabetical order) a used entry-level Cole Clark, Dowina, Lakewood, Larivee, or Maton, but you never know your luck, and you'd be into top quality instruments for not a lot of money.

He actually does- DV247 has dropped the prices on the (new!) Dowinas again, the one I got is only about £25ish more than I paid for mine a while back. They definitely have some all-solid models under his budget.

EDIT: https://www.dv247.com/en_GB/GBP/Guitars/Acoustic-Guitars/cat-GITARRE-GITWEST?SearchTerm=&SortingAttribute=Price_ms_gb-asc&PageSize=30&ViewType=2&FollowSearch=&SourceReference=&SearchDirection=&SearchParameter=@QueryTerm=&SourceReference=&FollowSearch=&Manufacturer=Dowina

The New Albalonga is the one I have, and the Sauvignon is also all-solid and just under budget. The New Albalonga is a DV247/MusicStore exclusive model with African Mahogany/Khaya neck and back and sides, while the Sauvignon is a standard/non-exclusive model I think, with sapele neck/back/sides (both all-solid). Just bear in mind, it'll probably come from Germany, if that's a problem.

Now... whether it's quiet enough, I don't know. Mine sounds like an acoustic, so that might be too loud. And I've tried the electronics in mine about once, just to check they were working, so I'm not sure how good they are (I was pleasantly surprised, but I don't have much to compare against!).

willo

Dave_Mc said:

Tannin said:

You'll probably not have quite enough for (in alphabetical order) a used entry-level Cole Clark, Dowina, Lakewood, Larivee, or Maton, but you never know your luck, and you'd be into top quality instruments for not a lot of money.

He actually does- DV247 has dropped the prices on the (new!) Dowinas again, the one I got is only about £25ish more than I paid for mine a while back. They definitely have some all-solid models under his budget.

EDIT: https://www.dv247.com/en_GB/GBP/Guitars/Acoustic-Guitars/cat-GITARRE-GITWEST?SearchTerm=&SortingAttribute=Price_ms_gb-asc&PageSize=30&ViewType=2&FollowSearch=&SourceReference=&SearchDirection=&SearchParameter=@QueryTerm=&SourceReference=&FollowSearch=&Manufacturer=Dowina

The New Albalonga is the one I have, and the Sauvignon is also all-solid and just under budget. The New Albalonga is a DV247/MusicStore exclusive model with African Mahogany/Khaya neck and back and sides, while the Sauvignon is a standard/non-exclusive model I think, with sapele neck/back/sides (both all-solid). Just bear in mind, it'll probably come from Germany, if that's a problem.

Now... whether it's quiet enough, I don't know. Mine sounds like an acoustic, so that might be too loud. And I've tried the electronics in mine about once, just to check they were working, so I'm not sure how good they are (I was pleasantly surprised, but I don't have much to compare against!).

Dowina sounds really interesting, from the little I've heard. Are they all hand made in Slovenia? Seems unlikely at the lower price but they do seem to have excellent reviews. Is there a catch?

THe main one from me would be it getting shipped without any kind of a case, if it was coming from Germany. But they seem interesting, without any potential baggage (Eastman).

Dave_Mc

willo said:

Dowina sounds really interesting, from the little I've heard. Are they all hand made in Slovenia? Seems unlikely at the lower price but they do seem to have excellent reviews. Is there a catch?

THe main one from me would be it getting shipped without any kind of a case, if it was coming from Germany. But they seem interesting, without any potential baggage (Eastman).

Yeah mine says it's handmade in Slovakia. Some of the really cheapest laminate b&s ones might be started off in Korea (?) and then finished off in Slovakia, but the all-solid ones at least (and even the dearer laminate b&s ones I think) are handmade in Slovakia, at least as far as I'm aware.

I got mine shipped without a case to Northern Ireland. Mine was fine, but obviously that might not always be the case. You should (I think!) be covered even if anything does go wrong, but at the same time it's a lot handier if things don't go wrong- it's entirely up to you as to whether you're willing to take the risk or not, only you know what you're comfortable with.

No catch that I can tell. I think (judging by mine) they have a bit of a more modern type of tone, so as with any acoustic you have to like the tone it does.

PC008

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/257138/fs-yamaha-fg5-with-original-case#latest

These are great = make a cheeky offer?

Christeafur

Faith acoustics are always decent and Auden worth a look

willo

Hi everyone, thanks for all the input.

I've been round the houses on this because I put more weight on the plugged in sound than many reviews and demos (understandably) do. In particularly I like the systems where you can blend piezo with an onboard or modelled mic.

So my effective shortlist is:

- Sire Larry Carlton A4 (£450)
- Yamaha FGX3 (£900)
- Yamaha AC3M/R (£700/£800)

I dig the Dowinas but I don't dig buying internationally without a case.

Eastman I'm torn on because, honestly, the LPs of theirs that I have played were incredible, high-definition instruments. So I'd be tempted but the above stuff about sustainability and governance does raise some questions and uncertainty for me. And, there are better deals to be had on Yamaha at the moment, compared to Eastman.

PC008

I have the Yamaha FS3X - and it definitely holds it own compared to my other (much more expensive) Martin D28 and Lowden O-22. I will say I bought mine in Lockdown online with out playing it and initially the action was a bit too high for my liking so took it to a luthier for a setup recently. If I was buying again I would try first and ask the shop to fix the action first.

Dave_Mc

willo said:

I dig the Dowinas but I don't dig buying internationally without a case.

No worries, it's totally your call. There are a few dealers in the UK but I don't think they have as good prices (could be wrong, but I don't think so).

willo

Dave_Mc said:

willo said:

I dig the Dowinas but I don't dig buying internationally without a case.

No worries, it's totally your call. There are a few dealers in the UK but I don't think they have as good prices (could be wrong, but I don't think so).

Hi @Dave_Mc - I'm still circling back to the Dowina Sauvignon; it's a nice price and between the Sire A4 and Yamaha FSX3; plus it just has a little bit of a 'special' feeling from the pictures I've seen. Apart from the case, one thing that put me off was about this idea of 'open pore' - I don't know exactly what that means; do you? Specifically, my house can sometimes get a bit humid and so I was worried it might lead to warping etc. But then I can't see if the Sauvignon is 'open pore' or if that's something only reserved for the higher-price models. Any ideas?

Tannin

Open pore finishes are simply sprayed and polished in the normal way, using any of the usual variety of materials. 

Contrast with filled pore finishes: with these the finisher fills the thousands of tiny pores in the surface of the timber before applying the final coats. Only some timbers have visible pores in the first place. Examples include rosewoods, mahogany and mahogany-like timbers, oak, and walnut. Others like maple and all of the common top timbers are described as "closed pore" timbers. In reality, all timbers have pores, it's just that the "open pore" ones have larger ones.

Note that the term "open pore" is used to mean two different things: (a) not filing the pores before spraying the finish on, and (b) timbers which have pores large enough to notice. An "open pore" finish on (say) a Sitka Spruce top makes no sense - it doesn't have pores large enough to fill in the first place. 

Some people say that open pore finishes are sonically superior because you haven't weighed the timber down with heavy pore-filling crud. Theoretically, sure. But the difference, if any at all, is very small. The key thing to note here is that most of the sound quality (say 80% just to put a number on it)  comes from the top, and the timbers normally used for tops - spruces, cedar, redwood, exotic pines - don't have visible pores anyway. 

As for the instrument reacting differently to humidity, I can't see that. Remember that the inside of any acoustic guitar  - almost 50% of the surface area - has no finish at all. 

Long and the short of it is that it makes no special difference. 

willo

Tannin said:

Open pore finishes are simply sprayed and polished in the normal way, using any of the usual variety of materials. 

Contrast with filled pore finishes: with these the finisher fills the thousands of tiny pores in the surface of the timber before applying the final coats. Only some timbers have visible pores in the first place. Examples include rosewoods, mahogany and mahogany-like timbers, oak, and walnut. Others like maple and all of the common top timbers are described as "closed pore" timbers. In reality, all timbers have pores, it's just that the "open pore" ones have larger ones.

Note that the term "open pore" is used to mean two different things: (a) not filing the pores before spraying the finish on, and (b) timbers which have pores large enough to notice. An "open pore" finish on (say) a Sitka Spruce top makes no sense - it doesn't have pores large enough to fill in the first place. 

Some people say that open pore finishes are sonically superior because you haven't weighed the timber down with heavy pore-filling crud. Theoretically, sure. But the difference, if any at all, is very small. The key thing to note here is that most of the sound quality (say 80% just to put a number on it)  comes from the top, and the timbers normally used for tops - spruces, cedar, redwood, exotic pines - don't have visible pores anyway. 

As for the instrument reacting differently to humidity, I can't see that. Remember that the inside of any acoustic guitar  - almost 50% of the surface area - has no finish at all. 

Long and the short of it is that it makes no special difference. 

Nice - of course, that makes sense to me! Don't know why I hadn't equated it with grain filler on electrics (SGs etc). I think I was just confused as I hadn't seen it being mentioned with any guitars other than the Dowina - as if it was something special, and someone on another forum had mentioned something about it needing special maintenance, but that sounds a bit unlikely based on what you've said.

Tannin

Cheers @willo it's quite common. Furch do it as routine, for example, so do Cole Clark. There will be many others.

thermionic

willo said:

THe main one from me would be it getting shipped without any kind of a case, if it was coming from Germany. 

I’ve told this story before, but ten years ago I bought an acoustic guitar from a large German box-shifter. Knowing that it would be in the posession of couriers for 2-3 times longer than if I’d bought it in the UK, I thought that adding the recommended hard case (their own brand one which was very reasonably priced) would be a good insurance policy, so I added that to my order.

Delivery driver knocked on my door a few days later with two large boxes for me. Guitar in one, empty case in the other.

willo

thermionic said:

willo said:

THe main one from me would be it getting shipped without any kind of a case, if it was coming from Germany. 

I’ve told this story before, but ten years ago I bought an acoustic guitar from a large German box-shifter. Knowing that it would be in the posession of couriers for 2-3 times longer than if I’d bought it in the UK, I thought that adding the recommended hard case (their own brand one which was very reasonably priced) would be a good insurance policy, so I added that to my order.

Delivery driver knocked on my door a few days later with two large boxes for me. Guitar in one, empty case in the other.

I really thought the punchline was going to be a broken guitar and an empty case. But I'm glad that wasn't the case! (No pun intended)

Dave_Mc

willo said:

Dave_Mc said:

willo said:

I dig the Dowinas but I don't dig buying internationally without a case.

No worries, it's totally your call. There are a few dealers in the UK but I don't think they have as good prices (could be wrong, but I don't think so).

Hi @Dave_Mc - I'm still circling back to the Dowina Sauvignon; it's a nice price and between the Sire A4 and Yamaha FSX3; plus it just has a little bit of a 'special' feeling from the pictures I've seen. Apart from the case, one thing that put me off was about this idea of 'open pore' - I don't know exactly what that means; do you? Specifically, my house can sometimes get a bit humid and so I was worried it might lead to warping etc. But then I can't see if the Sauvignon is 'open pore' or if that's something only reserved for the higher-price models. Any ideas?

I'm not sure- I've only tried mine, the Albalonga. I'm not sure if the Sauvignon is the same finish or not, but mine is a satin, not gloss, finish. You'd be best listening to @Tannin about it, he knows way more about acoustics than I do. (My house is very humid too and mine's just sitting out and- as far as I can tell!- it's fine.)

As @Tannin said, a lot of people (usually guitar manufacturers!) say that open-pore finishes sound better. FWIW any time I've been able to try even vaguely similar guitars with both types of finish I've preferred the gloss ones! Whether that's just because I prefer how they look or whatever, I don't know. That being said my Dowina sounds excellent, but I've never been able to try it next to a gloss one (which is a fair bit more money). My feeling (which could well be wrong and/or coloured by psychology) is that open/satin finishes sound more "raw" while gloss finishes sound more "refined", for want of a better word.

Oh now I think of it, whatever finish is on my Dowina back and sides, it kind of "catches" some microfibre cloths when I dust the guitar. That's a little annoying. I don't think it's doing any other harm, but it's a bit of an annoying noise/feel, a bit like nails down a blackboard!

FWIW I went with the Albalonga because it had African Mahogany back/sides and neck- I haven't tried that many acoustics, but of the few I have tried, I suspect I prefer the tone of African Mahogany (really Khaya) to Sapele. I could be wrong, but I think it's a slightly higher priced wood- the higher-end non-Master series Dowinas use it. On the negative side, the Albalonga is a MusicStore exclusive model, so I guess some people may figure that's less attractive. (Mine also came with Grover tuners, which was nice- not specced and maybe I got lucky!)

However... I've just noticed that Dowina is now speccing the Sauvignon with Khaya back, sides and neck rather than Sapele (although if you look at the Dowina website there's still one place on the Sauvignon page where it says "Sapele Mahogany"!). Whether the DV247 ones are newer Khaya ones or older Sapele ones, I don't know. (And whether it even matters I don't know either, having not tried both!)

EDIT: LOL @thermionic I've heard lots of stories along those lines! I wouldn't buy a separate case to protect a guitar in transit without checking they'd actually put the guitar into the case. To be fair- some people may want the original box of the guitar, and also it's presumably extra work for them to unpack it etc.. FWIW I've never had a (new, from a retail store) guitar turn up with any damage at all (touch wood!) whether it was in a case or not. But I may well just have been very lucky...

sev112

I think I have the Open Pore finish on my Dowina Caramel.  The top is Dolomite Spruce, and it is like almost natural fine sanded wood feel rather than an obvious lacquer feel.  The top is very thin, much lighter than my Taylor spruce top which I always thought was thin.  

But the Caramel is a special/limited edition  so it might not be the same finish as what you are looking at.

but it is a fabulous guitar in all aspects, not least the craftsmanship and details, but especially the sound.  And I love it  

thomasross20

Let me say this. There is a noticeable audible difference between my two gloss guitars and the non-gloss. The non-gloss sounds a bit more airy / alive in some sense, like they're already aged. The gloss are a touch subdued in comparison though with a less "in your face" airiness and a touch more syrup in the tone. I prefer the feel and maybe even the sound of the non-gloss. 

guitarjack66

I have a Cort Parlour which I believe is open pore. If so the surface looks like it has lots of inverted but very minute bumps in it. Sort of if you smoothed out sandpaper where you'd get a smoother surface but not entirely as perfect as a gloss one. I would try and take a close up photo but I dont have access to it until Wednesday.

thomasross20

5 mins in re gloss/satin tonal differences:

https://youtu.be/ex0qgUhaWXQ?si=GOk60ZfyfeqxACGZ