12-string suggestions

Tannin

My other brother, the one with the early 70s CBS-badged, made-by-Tokai 12-string and more recently the Larivee (which I recommended to him but still haven't seen for myself) wants to upgrade his lovely but pretty ancient 12. He's talking about a Martin HD-12-28 and plans to trade the Larry in on it (nice guitar but not enough strings, he says).

He plays fingerstyle. I'm a bit off my patch when it comes to 12-strings, so let's put it this way, if he was interested in a six-string, I reckon he would really enjoy a Lowden, or something else in that rich, responsive sort of line. 

I can't imagine him springing for a Lowden, so what else is there? 

He tried my Cole Clark 12  (now sold) and didn't like it. That one was very jangly and bright, it would be perfect for acoustic rhythm in a band mix, that sort of stuff. Not at all his sort of sound.

He tried a Maton 12-string (presumably an SRS-70C12, a spruce and Blackwood dred) and found it woody and stiff. (I've never played one but I'd expect it to be at its best strummed with a plectrum in, for example, singer-songwriter style. Again, not his thing.)

Of my current guitars (all 6-strings), the only one he much likes is the Messiah - a sweet, rich spruce and rosewood sound, and quite responsive. He hasn't seen the rosewood Furch yet but he'd probably like that, and also my little Mineur if I put silk and steel strings on it.

I suggested a Guild F-512 Maple but he won't like that because it's (a) not dark-coloured like rosewood, and (b) at least $2000  more than the $6000 Martin. He might like the F-512 Rosewood better. I also suggested Taylor. I reckon something like an 858 might suit him. He likes rosewood. 

Anyway, I told him to look around for those, for a Furch, and for a Lakewood, but the reality is that he's unlikely to see examples of any of those in Victoria, bar one or maybe two just by chance. And I suggested he might like to consider having something made. (Hell, if you can afford an HD-12-28, commissioning a custom guitar isn't all that much extra.) 

A quick trawl around the usual places' websites brought up nothing much. Mannys' have a J-45 12 which I'm confident he wouldn't even glance at because pig-ugly.(I agree) and if he did he'd realise it was mahogany and rule that out, and if it sounds anything like the other J-45s I've played he wouldn't like the sound of it either. (Now would I.)

Nobody has stock of Martin 12s, I didn't see any Guilds either. Or anything else much. I think people have gone crazy for Black Friday (which wasn't even really a thing here until about 5 years ago) and bought every damn thing and the retailers are sitting on empty shops and nice fat bank accounts right now. 

Oh and he says only likes dreadnoughts (but I reckon he'd get on fine with a jumbo, which is the proper shape for a 12-string after all), and he doesn't like murdering Orangutans so Chinese and Indonesian guitars are out. 

And yes, he's hard to please. Probably there is no good answer, but I thought I'd ask the question.

guitarjack66

Nothing Yamaha like that maybe would be a contender? They seem to be more morally inclined?

Tannin

Cheers Jack. I checked that earlier but, prompted by your post, just checked again. 

Surprisingly enough, Yamaha don't seem to make anything much in mid-range and higher-end 12-strings, only cheap and cheapish ones. Their best 12 seems to be the LL16-12, which sells for around $1000 AUD and fits into the bottom of the all-solid range . It is unlikely to be as good as his existing instrument.

Weird, isn't it. You'd think Yamaha would have a top-class 12 to offer but it seems that they don't.

ICBM

How about a Larrivée 12? They make at least a couple of models.

Tannin

Good thinking. I'll check. I think he likes his Larivee 6-string.

Then again, I doubt that there is a new Larivee 6-string for sale anywhere in this whole country, let alone a 12-string. I don't think Larivee have ever had a distributer here; Brother Other got his Larry 6 second-hand - presumably it originally came from someone who did a private import, or bought it in America then moved over here. But I'll check.

EDIT: Hello, hello, hello - several local retailers have picked up Larivee now! That's new. They must have stitched up a distribution deal at last - though the two retailers with an actual range rather than one single example are in Adelaide (1000 kilometres west of his place) and Sydney (1100 kilometres north-east).

No 12-strings in stock though.

(Why am I looking on his behalf instead of letting him do his own spadework? Mostly because I love buying guitars and I can't afford any more for myself this year. Doing it by proxy is better than not doing it at all. )

deejayen

I spotted a used 2022 model Gibson J-45 12-string for sale.  I didn't know they made them, but it might be an interesting guitar.

Tannin

^ Cheers @deejayen. Long drive from Victoria to Scotland though.  

deejayen

That's true - you'd need to stop for a couple of breaks on the way...

I just thought there might have been a Gibson dealer in Australia!  I don't know anything about the J-45 12-string, but if your brother is looking at an HD-28 then a Gibson might be slightly cheaper...

The seller says the Gibson has the best 12-string neck they've ever tried...  Oh, and apparently it sounds and plays amazingly well...

Edit:  I've just seen you previously mentioned and ruled out the J-45!  Oh well, I think I'd give one a try (along with a Guild) if I wanted a 12-stringer.

Tannin

I have never yet played a Gibson acoustic I liked, @deejayen - but as I often say, that could change as I've never played a Dove or an SJ-200 ... or a Gibson 12-string!

Actually, I reckon a 12 might work pretty nicely on the shorter scale. People (including me sometimes) are always tuning them down a semitone or two to reduce the tension a bit - a Gibson scale tuned in E has tension much the same as a standard scale in Eb. So why not? Of course, I'd have to wear a blindfold but worse things happen at sea.

deejayen

I think I quite like Gibsons.  Some aren't great for tone and build quality, but a good one can be fanastic, and they do make some with chunky necks, which I like. 

I've tried some SJ200's, but they've all been a bit 'dead'. 

I played a Dove recently, and thought that was actually a really good sounding guitar.  I'm not so keen on the looks it, but it's definitely a guitar I'd consider.

Tannin

Many people here love Doves. I've never even seen one, let alone played one, but I like long scales and I'm a maple tragic so there is every chance. And while I mostly don't care for the sound of Gibson acoustics, they certainly have nice necks. Though to be fair, most guitars do these days. Back in the 70 ... errgh! You got some horrorshows!

Smellyfingers

Although I am not a huge fan of the Taylor sound, I have heard they make very good twelve strings, partly because their special join makes them extra stable.

In fact I think affordable twelve strings was how the company made it’s name. Certainly the action on the one I tried was nicely buttery compared with other makes.

ICBM

Leo Kottke plays a Taylor (signature model), which should be a fair recommendation. I’ve never played one, but I’d quite like to at some point.

It’s also probably deeply uncool to say so, but one of the best 12-string sounds I can think of is John Denver, who mostly used Guilds I think.

guitarjack66

Having never played either a Taylor or Martin I have to say that a Taylor appeals to me more based on various youtube acoustic strummers. I've never really thought more than 'Hmm,a Martin' but with quite a few Taylors I've mentally nodded and thought 'Very nice on both sound and looks.'

guitarman1984

I'd try a Yamaha LL16-12, impressive value for the money. Mine serves me well since 20+years, it is just that good ...

sev112

Did @TTony  sell his Taylor 12 string?  Although it’s a lot of postage to the other side of the world  (I don’t mean Norfolk)

TTony

sev112 said:

Did @TTony  sell his Taylor 12 string?  Although it’s a lot of postage to the other side of the world  (I don’t mean Norfolk)

He p/ex'd it against his Taylor 324 @sev112