Strymon and Line6??

Fretwired

impmann said:

You said...

The truth is Line 6 never made a great deal of money.

And then you bring up last years' accounts to prove this... 

My point is - YOUR comment is actually factually inaccurate. Yes, last years accounts are a matter of record. But go back a bit before the economic downturn - and then look at the overall figures with the US ones included. Bear in mind that Line6 UK is owned by Line6 Inc and Line6 is a US company,  so by looking at the UK figures you aren't looking at the whole picture... but of course you know that already don't you. 

Therefore the phrase "Line6 never made a great deal of money" is not true. And I wonder why you seem to trot things like this out every time the mere mention of the company is made...

You seem to revel in Line6 bashing - based on your own opinions and half truths that you have learnt via forums and the internet... and we all know how accurate forums and the internet are. You don't like where the company is now. We get it. Move on,dude...

I think I'm outta this thread... as this has all been done to death before.

And I have a reputation round here as a Line 6 fanboy .. I've spent loads of cash with Line 6 and currently have a Line 6 500X and Line 6 POD HD in my humble studio. I've also owned Line 6 amps, every single model of POD plus POD Farm. So reel your neck in .. I know you're a Line 6 employee but why not backup your assertions with some facts.

Line 6 haven't really innovated for years. Look at the website - the current range of Spider amps have been around for ages as has the PC interface range, POD Farm, the M-Series pedalboards and the stompbox modeller range. There are some excellent products in the range but they're all in need of an upgrade. The company has culled a large number of products recently, only the HD500X remains and the HD bean is no longer made and the DT50 amp and some Variax models have been heavily discounted as they're presumably about to be discontinued. Even the AMPLIFi uses old Line 6 modelling technology coupled with some third party tech.

From where I sit I see a company in crisis which has been sold to Yamaha. So the future is probably bright .. I really don't understand why Line 6 didn't upgrade the excellent M-Series and upgrade the Spider amps with HD technology ..

Fretwired

Drew_fx said:

Line 6 need to make a MKII of the M9 and M13 pedals. Soon as they do that, and presuming they don't drop the ball, they'll be the talk of the town again. Literally everyone who has used an M9 and M13 is waiting for it.

Until then, I guess I'll finish modifying this M9 I've got

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/GearDemos/M9_switchmods.JPG

Exactly .. Line 6 should have stuck to what it was good at .. however it costs serious money to develop or redevelop products. IMHO Line 6 has too many products and pet projects .. do they really make money from those mixers?

hugbot

monquixote;387131" said:

The main thing I like about the Strymons (or at least the Flint and El Cap that I have) is that they do a small number of things really well and the knobs are easy to understand and do something useful wherever you put them.

The thing about modelling gear is that regardless of how it sounds there's something psychologically appealing about single stomps and unappealling about menu diving.

Strymon got over the guitar snob prejudice largely by making their products hugely streamlined and idiot proof, with lots of attention to tactile details like how the knobs feel, not dissimilar to apples design philosophy.

Fretwired

hugbot said:

monquixote;387131" said:

The main thing I like about the Strymons (or at least the Flint and El Cap that I have) is that they do a small number of things really well and the knobs are easy to understand and do something useful wherever you put them.

The thing about modelling gear is that regardless of how it sounds there's something psychologically appealing about single stomps and unappealling about menu diving.

Strymon got over the guitar snob prejudice largely by making their products highly focused and idiot proof, not dissimilar to apples design philosophy.

Totally agee.

In fairness Line 6's early products like the POD, Flextone amps, DL4 and so forth were a doddle to use. I still use my ancient POD 2 for this very reason ..

joeyowen

hugbot said:

Strymon got over the guitar snob prejudice largely by making their products hugely streamlined and idiot proof, with lots of attention to tactile details like how the knobs feel, not dissimilar to apples design philosophy.

Get the new POD HD2, 4mm thinner

Get the new POD HD3, 2mm thinner again!
Get the new POD HD4 1/4" bigger....

Get the new POD HD5, 4mm thinner again

repeat every month

?????

Profit

noisepolluter

monquixote said:

I can remember Guitarist saying something like "If you try a POD and don't lose 2 hours in complete wonder then guitat probably isn't for you" or words to that effect. It was a total revolution. 

I think still probably the most important guitar product of the last 20 years.

I'm still impressed by the POD 2 through a decent set of headphones.

Fretwired

randomhandclaps said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

I never understand why there is such a fuss over line 6. 

It's a bit when kids say 'What's does everyone rave about Sgt Peppers?" - you had to be there at the time really.  When the first POD came out I was working in an area where I was surrounded by professional musician and producers on a daily basis and the POD really was ground breaking at that point.  Everyone talked about it, everyone wanted to try one and virtually every studio I can think of at the time had one... and most still have.  Although it has been greatly improved upon it did stand on it's own at the time.

True .. I went out and bought one the first week they were released. The first version only had 16 amps. I got a chip upgrade when the POD 2 came out and even got a Flextone II amp ... still use my POD 2. As @monquixote rightly says it's probably the most important guitar product of the last 20 years.

Drew_TNBD

hugbot;387558" said:

The thing about modelling gear is that regardless of how it sounds there's something psychologically appealing about single stomps and unappealling about menu diving.

Menu diving yes. But not all multi's involve that.

meltedbuzzbox

Fretwired said:

impmann said:

You said...

The truth is Line 6 never made a great deal of money.

And then you bring up last years' accounts to prove this... 

My point is - YOUR comment is actually factually inaccurate. Yes, last years accounts are a matter of record. But go back a bit before the economic downturn - and then look at the overall figures with the US ones included. Bear in mind that Line6 UK is owned by Line6 Inc and Line6 is a US company,  so by looking at the UK figures you aren't looking at the whole picture... but of course you know that already don't you. 

Therefore the phrase "Line6 never made a great deal of money" is not true. And I wonder why you seem to trot things like this out every time the mere mention of the company is made...

You seem to revel in Line6 bashing - based on your own opinions and half truths that you have learnt via forums and the internet... and we all know how accurate forums and the internet are. You don't like where the company is now. We get it. Move on,dude...

I think I'm outta this thread... as this has all been done to death before.

From where I sit I see a company in crisis which has been sold to Yamaha. So the future is probably bright .. I really don't understand why Line 6 didn't upgrade the excellent M-Series and upgrade the Spider amps with HD technology ..

Why would Yamaha with their level of wealth choose to buy a major player in the market if they were in crisis?

Why didn't they buy Strymon as "that is where all the talent and skill/left field thinking is" ?

Dude you are speculating from the inner depths of your own rectum. Using published accounts doesn't really divulge shit all. 
Especially as Line 6 is a multi armed operation 

Not to mention nothing has changed in the running of Line 6. So if its all shit storms in a sandwich why haven't Yamaha gutted the fuck out of it, sold off all assets and holdings?

monquixote

Line6 have a big name and some great products that sorely need updating. If yamaha have a big stack of cash and want to get into modeling it's a marriage made in heaven

meltedbuzzbox

monquixote said:

Line6 have a big name and some great products that sorely need updating. If yamaha have a big stack of cash and want to get into modeling it's a marriage made in heaven

I really wouldn't be surprised if Line 6 have shit loads of patents that are keeping the directors pockets nicely lined with cash.

And you don't know what they have up their sleeves. Its business at the end of the day. If something keeps selling you dont stop selling it for the sake of innovation. You pocket the cash, say thank you very much, drive down the cost of production and enjoy the profit.

wayneirie

I wouldn't be surprised to see a guitarist friendly range of digital desks/recorders/audio interfaces. With line 6 modelling as an integral part of it.

hugbot

They did that already. toneport, backtrack and their live desk things.

mellowsun

wayneirie said:

I wouldn't be surprised to see a guitarist friendly range of digital desks/recorders/audio interfaces. With line 6 modelling as an integral part of it.

Nah, too useful, so would never happen!

Fretwired

meltedbuzzbox said:

Fretwired said:

impmann said:

You said...

The truth is Line 6 never made a great deal of money.

And then you bring up last years' accounts to prove this... 

My point is - YOUR comment is actually factually inaccurate. Yes, last years accounts are a matter of record. But go back a bit before the economic downturn - and then look at the overall figures with the US ones included. Bear in mind that Line6 UK is owned by Line6 Inc and Line6 is a US company,  so by looking at the UK figures you aren't looking at the whole picture... but of course you know that already don't you. 

Therefore the phrase "Line6 never made a great deal of money" is not true. And I wonder why you seem to trot things like this out every time the mere mention of the company is made...

You seem to revel in Line6 bashing - based on your own opinions and half truths that you have learnt via forums and the internet... and we all know how accurate forums and the internet are. You don't like where the company is now. We get it. Move on,dude...

I think I'm outta this thread... as this has all been done to death before.

From where I sit I see a company in crisis which has been sold to Yamaha. So the future is probably bright .. I really don't understand why Line 6 didn't upgrade the excellent M-Series and upgrade the Spider amps with HD technology ..

Why would Yamaha with their level of wealth choose to buy a major player in the market if they were in crisis?

Why didn't they buy Strymon as "that is where all the talent and skill/left field thinking is" ?

Dude you are speculating from the inner depths of your own rectum. Using published accounts doesn't really divulge shit all. 
Especially as Line 6 is a multi armed operation 

Not to mention nothing has changed in the running of Line 6. So if its all shit storms in a sandwich why haven't Yamaha gutted the fuck out of it, sold off all assets and holdings?

Yamaha are buying a name and a going concern for a decent price [if a company is doing well you pay top dollar if it's underperforming you buy it at a bargain price] .. Line 6 has been culling products. Why would Line 6 be up for sale if everything was hunky dory? The Line 6 Spider IV range was launched in 2009 and hasn't been updated. Likewise POD Farm and a host of other products. Why was the focus shifted from guitar modelling .. before you shoot your mouth off maybe you should read some background on what's happening ..

From a Line 6 press release ..

Line 6 Announces New CEO and Executive Leadership
  
Line 6 executives Paul Foeckler, Joe Bentivegna and co-founder Marcus Ryle take on expanded roles

CALABASAS, Calif. – November 20, 2012 – Line 6, leading manufacturer of innovative solutions for musicians, today announced executive leadership changes designed to enhance the company’s focus on live sound and new markets. Paul Foeckler has been promoted to President and CEO, co-founder Marcus Ryle has assumed the role of Chief Strategy Officer and Joe Bentivegna has been named Chief Operating Officer. Foeckler succeeds Mike Muench, who recently resigned after a 14-year tenure as President and CEO, during which time he transformed the company from a small start-up into a significant player in the industry.

So Line 6 were effectively saying they were focusing on other areas .. maybe their 'live sound' products sell well and maybe that's why Yamaha have bought them. Who knows.

As a long time user of Line 6 gear and I can clearly see that they've lost their competitive advantage and have been overtaken by a range of manufacturers like Roland/Boss and Blackstar. Their R&D has obviously been focused away from guitar modelling.

Fretwired

meltedbuzzbox said:

monquixote said:

Line6 have a big name and some great products that sorely need updating. If yamaha have a big stack of cash and want to get into modeling it's a marriage made in heaven

I really wouldn't be surprised if Line 6 have shit loads of patents that are keeping the directors pockets nicely lined with cash.

And you don't know what they have up their sleeves. Its business at the end of the day. If something keeps selling you dont stop selling it for the sake of innovation. You pocket the cash, say thank you very much, drive down the cost of production and enjoy the profit.

You're dead right .. look how long the POD 2 was kept in production. It obviously sold well enough.

monquixote

Fretwired said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

monquixote said:

Line6 have a big name and some great products that sorely need updating. If yamaha have a big stack of cash and want to get into modeling it's a marriage made in heaven

I really wouldn't be surprised if Line 6 have shit loads of patents that are keeping the directors pockets nicely lined with cash.

And you don't know what they have up their sleeves. Its business at the end of the day. If something keeps selling you dont stop selling it for the sake of innovation. You pocket the cash, say thank you very much, drive down the cost of production and enjoy the profit.

You're dead right .. look how long the POD 2 was kept in production. It obviously sold well enough.

It's a great tactic if it works, but there are a great number of companies that have taken that approach (Atari with the 2600, Apple with the Apple II, Kodak with film cameras, Blockbuster with rentals, etc) where it's cost them dearly.