Small, Giggable Modelling Board

Wazmeister

digitalscream said:

In my experience...don't do it. At least, not like that. Amp and effects modelling is amazing these days, but speaker modelling isn't good enough for live work in my opinion. That's why I used this board:



...into a real cab. As an experience, it's orders of magnitude better than running into FRFR or through a PA. As far as I was concerned, that rig was functionally no different to using an amp. Using a Matrix or Barefaced guitar cab, it's as light as you like.

This is wisdom.

I agree 100% - I use a real cab too. 

Snags

Not modelling, but I've gigged with Nano+ populated with tuner, OD, Rat, Delay and a Quilter Superblock UK into a 2x12" cab.

Obviously it depends what sounds you're going for, but it has worked for me when space was limited. 

Woodandwires

I have had a Simplifier DLX and a Simplifier Mark II and sold them both, not because there was anything wrong with them, they are both great. Currently i am using a Neunaber Iconclast as my headphone amp with a Rivival Drive Compact going into it, the Iconclast is very similar to the Simplifier, it just works in a different and for me easier way.
Having said all that, i may go back to having a small amp instead with the minimum amount of controls, so they well be up for sale soon.

BeardyAndy

I was using a TwoNotes CabM+ at the end of my pedal board (currently in the classifieds) straight into the PA, took a bit of time finding the right fx as what was a go to with my amp didn't necessarily work without. 
I gigged it all this year, small pubs n clubs and had no problems, I've now stopped playing with the band and am moving to bass so i've gone down the HX Stomp route, it sounds incredible but it's been 3 weeks and I still don't really know how it works!

Voxman

I turned 66 in August, I have a bad back, and the biggest issue for me is weight. I simply can't carry my big heavy amps around any more. So I've gone completely amp less and gig with a Vox Tonelab LE through FOH or through a Headrush FRFR108 which at only 19lbs is less than half the weight of my lightest amp.  It means I can take these with a guitar in one trip from my car to the stage.

It works for me, the audience know no different, and my back thanks me. 

TimmyO

MrBump said:

Jeepers, things have moved on in a short space of time, haven't they?

I love my valve amps, but I'm wondering about a purely modelling board with a PA cab now as something that is good and giggable/rehearsable.

It always seemed to me that you'd just buy one of the big, all in one units, like Headrush, or Line6, or Neural.  But it seems we're now at the point where you could stick a ToneX and a reasonable multiFX on a Pedaltrain board and you're away.

Is anyone doing it that way?  It seems to fit the modular need, i.e. just swap out a pedal rather than be tied into a monolithic and expensive single unit.

I had a Bluguitar AMP1 and a Line6 HXFX on a Rockboard 3.1 - the HXFX switched channels on the AMP1 and handled all the effects. Weighed less than most pedalboards. Then used a lightweight cab. 

The options these days are indeed fantastic. 

Cimmerian

Nerine said:

A word of warning: 

This is a huge rabbit hole you can go down and the net result could be a rig that will likely be just as big and complicated (and likely sound less satisfying) than a compact valve combo and pedalboard. 

Trust me. Been there, done it. 

Also, as has been mentioned, a power amp into guitar speaker is far more palatable than full range (with IR) into PA speaker or flat(ish) response monitor. IR's aren't great, IMO. 

I’ve gone back to amps after using the Fractal FM9 for a year. It sounded good. Definitely. No issue with that. But ultimately, my head into a 1x12 cab sound better. Plus! (And this is the crucial bit for me) you don’t constantly search for secret settings or values in the software that might all of a sudden grant you unicorn tears tone with an amp. You just use it. The controls are the controls.

Plus! You have ZERO frame of reference when dialling in a modeller because the additional EQ options essentially take you out of the real world. How much low end do I need in this preset? Dunno. I need to check it against a real amp to see how realistic I’m being etc. And then tweak from there. Same when you go from room to room. Because dialling in a sound with a modeller generally takes a lot of trial and error and tweaking - it took me a fair few gigs and many a day/evening of messing around with it to get it where I wanted - you become loathe to mess with your presets too much when you get to a gig. Like, you could improve them, you could also make them worse just as easily. It's a double edged sword. With an amp, you just go up to it and adjust the controls with no fear. A power amp with EQ controls on it may negate this somewhat. But you're already then looking at guitar speakers because you're using a power amp, and then you're back to diminishing returns over a standard valve combo. 

Plus! I found myself using the amp that sounded the best to me in my patches. I also didn’t deviate from the IR selection because I liked what I heard (and honestly I got a bit scared to change them because I felt like I'd stumbled on to a really good blend). The options kind of become redundant once you settle on an amp you like. I own an actual 2203, so using the model of one was a bit pointless. I also found that switching amps out was a bit of a pointless exercise seeing as I'd usually dial them similarly and end up with a sound that was nearly identical to my previous patches. It makes the options a bit pointless seeing as you have a fairly firm idea of the "sound in your head" that you cannot really deviate from, because how a guitar sounds to you was likely something that was ingrained in you at a very young age. It's also one of the reasons I made a thread on this forum about the speaker/cab being more important than the amp for large tonal changes. I still stand by that. You flick through amps with the same cab, and the results make you realise there aren't that many unique ways to distort a guitar signal. So then you're relying on IR's and they are the weak link in the modelling ecosystem. 

The one thing I miss. Stereo to Front of House with cabinet modelling with simultaneous feed to fx return of valve amp. But even that has its drawbacks. The stereo field only really works if all audience members can hear each PA stack equally. A lot of the time they can't, let's be honest. A mic on your combo, or a Two Notes Captor plumbed into your existing amp will do the same job.

I haven't yet mentioned that your rig is going to sound hugely different depending on the PA it's plugged into. Through something nice, great. Through a pair of Peavey tops? Absolute garbage. Therefore it's nice to have something on stage that picks up a bit of the slack. 

Plus! No latency in the analogue domain. As much as I didn’t want to admit it, I could definitely detect latency in the digital setup. 

My modelling rig could sound slick live. No doubt. My 2203, even with a simple open back 1x12 which doesn’t take up a heap of room, can sound vastly more devastating and visceral. That’s the difference. 

My rig has the footprint of two regular sized doormats. One for the pedalboard. One for the cab. 40cm x 60cm each. That's not exactly large.

My modelling rig had no smaller footprint. The pedal board was bigger (wider, which is worse) and the monitor on it's side takes up approx same amount of space as a decently sized 1x12 cab. 

Therefore, I began to ask myself what I was gaining (as my car gradually filled more from gig to gig with other ancillaries that removed the compromise from my awesome digital solution) and I’m not sure what the answer was. Was it tone? Not really. Was it convenience? Not really. Was it labour saving? Not really. Was it easier to lug around? About even. Was it more versatile? Not really any more so than my analogue rig. Did I like it? Yes. Did it make me laugh like a maniac like my 2203 does? No. 

Silent stage isn't an issue, either. Just get a Captor X/Ox or similar and plug your head into that. 

By all means, jump in to modelling and embrace it, but be prepared to potentially continually seek ways to tailor the setup for your desires, adding size and complexity along the way. 

Were I doing the rabbit hole again, I’d probably go Friedman IR-X into Fryette Powerstation into 1x12 closed back cab. 

That’s a decent solution, and the best of all worlds, in my opinion. I may still build the above rig as I think it would be stellar. Really compact and really great sounding, being all valve. 

That's why the Simplifier is so good - using it is just like using an amp and the adjustments you make live are the same.. Massive advantage over option paralysis digital boards that noone can change on the fly.. 

NickB

Cimmerian said:

Nerine said:

A word of warning: 

This is a huge rabbit hole you can go down and the net result could be a rig that will likely be just as big and complicated (and likely sound less satisfying) than a compact valve combo and pedalboard. 

Trust me. Been there, done it. 

Also, as has been mentioned, a power amp into guitar speaker is far more palatable than full range (with IR) into PA speaker or flat(ish) response monitor. IR's aren't great, IMO. 

I’ve gone back to amps after using the Fractal FM9 for a year. It sounded good. Definitely. No issue with that. But ultimately, my head into a 1x12 cab sound better. Plus! (And this is the crucial bit for me) you don’t constantly search for secret settings or values in the software that might all of a sudden grant you unicorn tears tone with an amp. You just use it. The controls are the controls.

Plus! You have ZERO frame of reference when dialling in a modeller because the additional EQ options essentially take you out of the real world. How much low end do I need in this preset? Dunno. I need to check it against a real amp to see how realistic I’m being etc. And then tweak from there. Same when you go from room to room. Because dialling in a sound with a modeller generally takes a lot of trial and error and tweaking - it took me a fair few gigs and many a day/evening of messing around with it to get it where I wanted - you become loathe to mess with your presets too much when you get to a gig. Like, you could improve them, you could also make them worse just as easily. It's a double edged sword. With an amp, you just go up to it and adjust the controls with no fear. A power amp with EQ controls on it may negate this somewhat. But you're already then looking at guitar speakers because you're using a power amp, and then you're back to diminishing returns over a standard valve combo. 

Plus! I found myself using the amp that sounded the best to me in my patches. I also didn’t deviate from the IR selection because I liked what I heard (and honestly I got a bit scared to change them because I felt like I'd stumbled on to a really good blend). The options kind of become redundant once you settle on an amp you like. I own an actual 2203, so using the model of one was a bit pointless. I also found that switching amps out was a bit of a pointless exercise seeing as I'd usually dial them similarly and end up with a sound that was nearly identical to my previous patches. It makes the options a bit pointless seeing as you have a fairly firm idea of the "sound in your head" that you cannot really deviate from, because how a guitar sounds to you was likely something that was ingrained in you at a very young age. It's also one of the reasons I made a thread on this forum about the speaker/cab being more important than the amp for large tonal changes. I still stand by that. You flick through amps with the same cab, and the results make you realise there aren't that many unique ways to distort a guitar signal. So then you're relying on IR's and they are the weak link in the modelling ecosystem. 

The one thing I miss. Stereo to Front of House with cabinet modelling with simultaneous feed to fx return of valve amp. But even that has its drawbacks. The stereo field only really works if all audience members can hear each PA stack equally. A lot of the time they can't, let's be honest. A mic on your combo, or a Two Notes Captor plumbed into your existing amp will do the same job.

I haven't yet mentioned that your rig is going to sound hugely different depending on the PA it's plugged into. Through something nice, great. Through a pair of Peavey tops? Absolute garbage. Therefore it's nice to have something on stage that picks up a bit of the slack. 

Plus! No latency in the analogue domain. As much as I didn’t want to admit it, I could definitely detect latency in the digital setup. 

My modelling rig could sound slick live. No doubt. My 2203, even with a simple open back 1x12 which doesn’t take up a heap of room, can sound vastly more devastating and visceral. That’s the difference. 

My rig has the footprint of two regular sized doormats. One for the pedalboard. One for the cab. 40cm x 60cm each. That's not exactly large.

My modelling rig had no smaller footprint. The pedal board was bigger (wider, which is worse) and the monitor on it's side takes up approx same amount of space as a decently sized 1x12 cab. 

Therefore, I began to ask myself what I was gaining (as my car gradually filled more from gig to gig with other ancillaries that removed the compromise from my awesome digital solution) and I’m not sure what the answer was. Was it tone? Not really. Was it convenience? Not really. Was it labour saving? Not really. Was it easier to lug around? About even. Was it more versatile? Not really any more so than my analogue rig. Did I like it? Yes. Did it make me laugh like a maniac like my 2203 does? No. 

Silent stage isn't an issue, either. Just get a Captor X/Ox or similar and plug your head into that. 

By all means, jump in to modelling and embrace it, but be prepared to potentially continually seek ways to tailor the setup for your desires, adding size and complexity along the way. 

Were I doing the rabbit hole again, I’d probably go Friedman IR-X into Fryette Powerstation into 1x12 closed back cab. 

That’s a decent solution, and the best of all worlds, in my opinion. I may still build the above rig as I think it would be stellar. Really compact and really great sounding, being all valve. 

That's why the Simplifier is so good - using it is just like using an amp and the adjustments you make live are the same.. Massive advantage over option paralysis digital boards that noone can change on the fly.. 

+1 on the Simplifier MKii and it has dry through so you can add another amp for a bit of wet/dry. Awesome bit of kit!