Do you really want a 'transparent' gain/overdrive pedal?

ICBM

Petepassion said:

Do you really want a 'transparent' gain/overdrive pedal?

No, I don't really like them, I prefer pedals which change the sound more obviously.

Dave_Mc

I think the Timmy was originally designed to push an overdriven Marshall. I agree, as a standalone overdrive it's a bit crap. As a boost for an already gainy amp, it's killer.

NelsonP

Great TPS episode on the notaklon thing. They basically build a klon using 3 signal paths and a ton of other pedals. There's quite a bit of pass through of the clean signal in a klon. This is what makes it a 'transparent' overdrive I think.

Funny, but Simon neil does the same thing with a bi-amped metal zone into plexi and clean signal into fender setup.

Wampler hot wired also has a clean blend.

So there's something in it.

Me? I prefer full on dirt. Usually from valves, although I do have quite a few overdrive / distortion pedals.

jca74

I use a single-channel amp (Laney SuperTop Cub) which has a switchable boost, so I use this along with a blues driver as a 'transparent' OD to give me a clean/crunch/lead which I really like since they share the same tonality and just differ on the amount of oomph being deployed. 

But then, I'm into my blues, so am not going after huge sonic differences. It's all about the tone, the vibe and the wrong notes....

Littlejonny

Petepassion said:

I recently bought a Timmy V2 and was a little underwhelmed by it. But thinking about it, I'm using it with my valve amp set clean and hoping it's going to give me the sound of the amp when driven/cranked. But it seems to be driving the neutral clean sound which isn't quite the same thing.
   I find my Zvex Box of rock is quite transparent, but not completely and just adds a fantastic 'valve driven' character to the signal. Also my Greer amps Lightspeed does a similar thing when seeking a very light gain, just adds a slight character/smokiness to the sound and much more preferable than the Timmy.
   In the vid I'm using my Maz 18 set clean, half way through the clip I use the Box of rock, and it just sounds glorious to me.
https://youtu.be/jXudQmtjFoI?si=9hIkQGQQE-ZoWU0q

Lovely tones and playing. I kept thinking I was going to hear ‘Be My Friend’ by Free. 

I might be in the minority of guitarists these days that enjoy a completely clean sound. Give me a Twin Reverb and I’m happy. The rest is pedals. So a transparent overdrive for me is one that adds some hair to the clean sound. 

 I dont do the ‘pushing the front end of the amp’ thing - because I want to be able to switch it all off and use my pristine clean sound. So the distortion has to come entirely from the pedal.

Many overdrive pedals have the clean signal alongside a very distorted one (eg the tube screamer). I don’t know if this is because some of the unaffected signal is being fed through or just from the particular way the circuit is clipping? Anyway, for me, something like a TS or an SD-1 or a BB Preamp or whatever has to be stacked into another pedal that clips more completely. 

Petepassion

@Littlejonny thanks.
Those Fender twins are lovely, I sometime used to put mine through an attenuator and got some lovely Jack White sounds. I often find stacking a couple of gain pedals gets a better result than just one pedal, although the box of rock works extremely well into the Maz 18, for  the reasons Monquixote said.

prowla

What does "transparent" mean?
Since the aim of an overdrive pedal is to change the signal, it cannot be transparent.

Petepassion

prowla said:

What does "transparent" mean?
Since the aim of an overdrive pedal is to change the signal, it cannot be transparent.

Well, my interpretation of transparent gain/overdrive would be a pedal that pushes an amp and gets that natural break up it would only get when driven hard with the master volume and really pushing the output valves. Using a pedal to achieve this at manageable volume level with no added tone/colour.
   

ElectricXII

My core dirty rhythm sound is a Timmy into a Marshall Bluesbreaker set fairly clean or a Vox AC15 at edge of breakup, so I don't really agree with @Dave_Mc comment about the Timmy being a bit crap. For higher gain tones I run a Hot Cake clone and into the Timmy. I've tried loads of drive pedals, especially with Vox amps and it 's the one whiich works for me!

ICBM

prowla said:

What does "transparent" mean?
Since the aim of an overdrive pedal is to change the signal, it cannot be transparent.

For me, it means no tone (EQ) change, so if you back it off to the point it’s not clipping, you can’t tell it’s on. This is easier said than done though, because clipping adds higher-frequency harmonics - so an overdrive pedal with no deliberate EQ change will sound brighter on than off, and if it does have EQ then it will sound different when it’s on but not clipping… if that makes sense.

Dave_Mc

ElectricXII said:

My core dirty rhythm sound is a Timmy into a Marshall Bluesbreaker set fairly clean or a Vox AC15 at edge of breakup, so I don't really agree with @Dave_Mc comment about the Timmy being a bit crap. For higher gain tones I run a Hot Cake clone and into the Timmy. I've tried loads of drive pedals, especially with Vox amps and it 's the one whiich works for me!

Come at me bro

(kidding    I think I've heard a lot of people say they work great with Voxes)

Dave_Mc

ICBM said:

prowla said:

What does "transparent" mean?
Since the aim of an overdrive pedal is to change the signal, it cannot be transparent.

For me, it means no tone (EQ) change, so if you back it off to the point it’s not clipping, you can’t tell it’s on. This is easier said than done though, because clipping adds higher-frequency harmonics - so an overdrive pedal with no deliberate EQ change will sound brighter on than off, and if it does have EQ then it will sound different when it’s on but not clipping… if that makes sense.

Yeah. Or if the pedal's not buffered and you're not using another buffer that complicates things too.

Fiddlesticks_

I spent years looking for the right OD that I could use with my AC15 that made it sound like itself, but cranked (i.e. transparent). In the end I realised that the best way to get my cranked amp sound was to, well, crank the amp and just use my guitar volume knob to get a cleaner sound. Sometimes the old ways just do the trick

Petepassion

Fiddlesticks_ said:

I spent years looking for the right OD that I could use with my AC15 that made it sound like itself, but cranked (i.e. transparent). In the end I realised that the best way to get my cranked amp sound was to, well, crank the amp and just use my guitar volume knob to get a cleaner sound. Sometimes the old ways just do the trick

Up until about six months ago I was using an attenuator and it sounded great. But I eventually found that stacking the right pedals together achieved near as dammit the same sound, plus it was simpler and I now have the option of a volume boost for solo’s, although that was also an option with my Boss TAE…but more of a faf.
   My old 335 through a box of rock into my AC50 with the Orange 4x12 last week sounded awesome. I’ve had a fair few drive pedals and the BOR is by far the best 

Fiddlesticks_

Petepassion said:

Fiddlesticks_ said:

I spent years looking for the right OD that I could use with my AC15 that made it sound like itself, but cranked (i.e. transparent). In the end I realised that the best way to get my cranked amp sound was to, well, crank the amp and just use my guitar volume knob to get a cleaner sound. Sometimes the old ways just do the trick

Up until about six months ago I was using an attenuator and it sounded great. But I eventually found that stacking the right pedals together achieved near as dammit the same sound, plus it was simpler and I now have the option of a volume boost for solo’s, although that was also an option with my Boss TAE…but more of a faf.
   My old 335 through a box of rock into my AC50 with the Orange 4x12 last week sounded awesome. I’ve had a fair few drive pedals and the BOR is by far the best 

This is one of the beauties of guitar gear - there's so many ways to get a sound, and the journey to the sound you want is often very fun and educating.

prowla

Dave_Mc said:

ICBM said:

prowla said:

What does "transparent" mean?
Since the aim of an overdrive pedal is to change the signal, it cannot be transparent.

For me, it means no tone (EQ) change, so if you back it off to the point it’s not clipping, you can’t tell it’s on. This is easier said than done though, because clipping adds higher-frequency harmonics - so an overdrive pedal with no deliberate EQ change will sound brighter on than off, and if it does have EQ then it will sound different when it’s on but not clipping… if that makes sense.

Yeah. Or if the pedal's not buffered and you're not using another buffer that complicates things too.

Yep - it's not easy to define, is it?

Since clipping is inherently a change in the frequency spectrum, it can't be transparent.

If you're backing it off to the point it's not doing that then you aren't using it and might as well just switch it off.

The real thing i suppose is that the instrument is not the guitar, but rather it is the guitar + effects + amp + speaker (+ room, etc.), so it's how they work together that defines the sound.