I'd like to learn to solo- if you were starting from scratch ,where would you start?

Tall_martin

Hi,

I've got better at chords and rhythm playing over the last two years. I stated a covers band and practiced loads. 

With my daughter being born in November that packed up. I tried to get a mate involved to do some open mic nights but he was too busy.

It will be a while before I'll be out looking for a band. In the meantime I would like to have something to aim for.

I can play under the bridge, but would have no idea how to write it or solo over it's chord progression. So that's my next target. Not specifically under the bridge but over a chord sequence or a key.

Doesn't need to be fast or showy, I do want to be melodic.

Hour long lessons with travel time are off the cards with a one month old unfortunately. 

I had singing lessons over zoom a while back but my tutor pushed me to play songs he knew/ liked. Do 30 min zoom lessons work on guitar?

What actually gets me to practice is not looking like a numpty. If I have to play in front of someone I will put the effort in. Playing it in rocksmith has not had the same impact.

Suggestions welcome.

hollywoodrox

A good C AGED system  tuition ,  learn major & minor pentatonics .  Sequences are good to learn too to give you a way to transition between melodic bits in a nice rolling fashion, plus you can loop them to give you time to recover if you get stuck .

CAGED is great as it kind of gets you using chord tones in your solos .
Also great to try  learning by ear simple melodies like Xmas carols  most of which are pretty simple ,then you can try it on vocal lines of songs 

Roland

If you want to learn to solo then learn solos that you like. 

There are many aspects of soloing. Different players use different combinations. Step one is to find solos which you like, and work on them. That will do two things. It will teach you the sort of solos and techniques which you like.  It will keep you happy which means that you will keep coming back to learn more.

Step two is to look at the solos you’re learning, and try to understand why different bits please you. Are they sections of a scale? How do they relate to the chords which you’re soloing over. 

Lestratcaster

Whenever I'm learning a solo I always make sure I can sing it first, so I internalise the rhythm and the phrases. Then I line up the phrases with the chords, bar by bar and what beat it starts on etc.

I teach online, but I find 30 minutes too short as there's slight latency which means you can't play together so you need to allow extra for you to play first then swap over. I do 4 of my weekly lessons online with learners and it works quite well.

CaseOfAce

Box 1 Pentatonic Blues Scale - and add the seasoning (bends, hammer ons, phrasing, pull offs, legato, double stops, slides, learning the licks in that position of your favourite players) followed by learning it all over the fretboard and how it can be used over a 12 bar and beyond.

LionAquaLooper

Hum or sing different melodies over the chord progression. The phrasings you get will be more natural and organic because they're coming from within, and not just from your fingers. And if it's a long progression you'll run out of breath like a singer would and will inhale. Again, more organic as opposed to an endless barrage of notes and theory on a fretboard. 

Record your humming/singing and emulate them on the guitar. This then has the added benefit of training your ears. 

Taking this approach will lead to your solos and melodies becoming more original and "you", and not lick based which is basically done to death already. 

viz

^ totes

Tall_martin

Thanks!

What is 

A good C AGED system? 

What is a bad one?

Tall_martin

I've had a go at this and felt I've learned nothing other than the solo itself note for note.

If you want to learn to solo then learn solos that you like. It will keep you happy which means that you will keep coming back to learn more.

Second point is key. Got to have a reason to keep on going 

I find 30 minutes too short.

Thanks. As my wee one gets older I might look for lessons. An hour is still a bit unreasonable at the moment.

@Caseoface
Thanks, how do I learn all that?  Book? YouTube videos? If you can do that, how would you learn it by choice now?

Record your humming/singing and emulate them on the guitar. This then has the added benefit of training your ears. 

I'll give that a go. I'm poor at learning by ear. I tried this is hardcore by pulp- the very simple slow obvious piano part and still took ages. The second more tinkly bit was easier to get. I couldn't work out why.



33s for the first 
1.05 for the tinkly bit

axisus

CaseOfAce said:

Box 1 Pentatonic Blues Scale - and add the seasoning (bends, hammer ons, phrasing, pull offs, legato, double stops, slides, 

Absolutely this! (I removed the next bit as that I'd say is phase 2)

Lewy

axisus said:

CaseOfAce said:

Box 1 Pentatonic Blues Scale - and add the seasoning (bends, hammer ons, phrasing, pull offs, legato, double stops, slides, 

Absolutely this! (I removed the next bit as that I'd say is phase 2)

Another vote for this. Move it 3 frets down for happier major sounds and you've got enough going on to pretty much be able to play something when solo time comes around in most cases. There's your first 18 months to 2 years as a soloist right there. Hell, most people don't venture much further than that!

stratman3142

CaseOfAce said:

Box 1 Pentatonic Blues Scale - and add the seasoning (bends, hammer ons, phrasing, pull offs, legato, double stops, slides, learning the licks in that position of your favourite players) followed by learning it all over the fretboard and how it can be used over a 12 bar and beyond.

By 'Pentatonic Blues Scale', do you mean a minor pentatonic with a b5. 

Taking the Verses of Under The Bridge as an example. They're in E major. I'm not a fan of the sound of a blues scale in that context. It might be better to go for an E major pentatonic in that situation, and add the 4 and the 7 to taste.

But I suppose it's all down to personal taste.

Danny1969

I'm going to go against the grain here and suggest this approach. 

First learn where all the notes are on the neck. This isn't hard but it is essential to really playing melodically on the fly

Then learn the basic major and minor scales, look at the formula for building one major and one minor scale, say in the key of A and then just apply the formula to the other keys. 

Then realise modes are just the major and minor keys you already know with slight customised sharp or flat notes. Put those into your arsenal. 

Now all you need to do is listen to the chords you are solo'ing over. Make sure you know what chords they are and what notes those chords contain. 

Then start solo'ing picking out the 3rds and fifths notes of the chords you are solo'ing over. That's what makes solo's melodic. You can stubble around in pentatonic boxes hitting the old melodic note here and there but if you want to be melodic you need to know which notes are the money notes and generally they are the 3rds and 5ths of the chord they go over plus the root here and there. 

Really nice melodic solo'ing  is actually as easy as that. It's just for some reason guitarist will waste years trying to find an easier path when all they had to do was that  little bit of hard work to begin with. 



 

Tall_martin

@Danny1969 ;; I can feel my inner 14 year old, the one who gave up on theory at grade one screaming at the thought of learn the basic major and minor scales

The current (44 year old me who wished 14 year old me had done his theory homework)  is nodding thinking that looks very comprehensive 

little bit of hard work to begin with. 

Shudder!

Not really. I can see why it's all useful now. As an orchestral double bass player who just played what he was given, scales and knowing why looked pointless. it wasn't like I was suddenly going to start improvising at the back.

Ironically the best bass player I knew was doing exactly that when our teacher wasn't looking.  

topdog91

Lots of great advice here, but I'll just add one thing that might not be obvious? What do you mean "learn to solo"? Improvisation? Playing the great solos? Writing your own great solos? The answers may differ slightly depending on your answer.

Generally, learning notes and scales on the fretboard is a great place to start. If you don't have the alphabet, it's unlikely you can create words let alone sentences. There are many ways to look at the fretboard, CAGED is an obvious one, but I'd like to plug MI's Guitar Fretboard Workbook with which you spend as much time off the guitar with the book and a pencil. The exercises in there then actually playing them, did more for me than anything else.

You'll want to learn about harmony and theory and how that applies to the fretboard. This can happen in parallel. Yes, MI's Harmony and Theory book and a pencil does the job.

Then, to become more natural, musical and less pattern-based, learn the fretboard from different points of view e.g. up and down strings.

Then come triads. It's only recently I understand the power of learning them, because they take us away from scales and closer to intervals, just the relationship between one note to the next.

Hope I haven't overdone it. Ironically I'll say keep it simple and go deep, don't try to do too much at once.

FWIW, my big mistake was *not* learning the great solos I love as a kid because I arrogantly and incorrectly thought that would make me into a clone. What I didn't understand is that for most of us, learning to play the things we love feeds into our brain for our own playing. We don't become a clone unless that is our goal. I'm making up for it now but I'll never get the 25 years back.

HAL9000

For melodic (and assuming the song is in a major key) I’d use the major pentatonic. Look at this…

https://youtu.be/zSTAvmXG5m8?feature=shared

axisus

Danny1969 said:

I'm going to go against the grain here and suggest this approach. 

First learn where all the notes are on the neck. This isn't hard but it is essential to really playing melodically on the fly

Then learn the basic major and minor scales, look at the formula for building one major and one minor scale, say in the key of A and then just apply the formula to the other keys. 

Then realise modes are just the major and minor keys you already know with slight customised sharp or flat notes. Put those into your arsenal. 

Now all you need to do is listen to the chords you are solo'ing over. Make sure you know what chords they are and what notes those chords contain. 

Then start solo'ing picking out the 3rds and fifths notes of the chords you are solo'ing over. That's what makes solo's melodic. You can stubble around in pentatonic boxes hitting the old melodic note here and there but if you want to be melodic you need to know which notes are the money notes and generally they are the 3rds and 5ths of the chord they go over plus the root here and there. 

Really nice melodic solo'ing  is actually as easy as that. It's just for some reason guitarist will waste years trying to find an easier path when all they had to do was that  little bit of hard work to begin with. 

Honestly that is way harder for someone just wanting to get a foot in the door on a bit of soloing. I think you are jumping way too high up the ladder for a beginner. 

Tall_martin

I think 

What do you mean "learn to solo"? Improvisation? Playing the great solos? Writing your own great solos? 

Probably improvisation and playing solos.

In my cover band we were messing  around with some songs we hadn't practiced and the singer shouted " do a solo" at me. I paused with no idea what to do do, the played some out of tune crap.

I'll probably try for a cover band over an originals when I have time again 

Tall_martin

I think 

What do you mean "learn to solo"? Improvisation? Playing the great solos? Writing your own great solos? 

Probably improvisation and playing solos.

In my cover band we were messing  around with some songs we hadn't practiced and the singer shouted " do a solo" at me. I paused with no idea what to do do, the played some out of tune crap.

I'll probably try for a cover band over an originals when I have time again 

stickyfiddle

LionAquaLooper said:

Hum or sing different melodies over the chord progression. The phrasings you get will be more natural and organic because they're coming from within, and not just from your fingers. And if it's a long progression you'll run out of breath like a singer would and will inhale. Again, more organic as opposed to an endless barrage of notes and theory on a fretboard. 

Record your humming/singing and emulate them on the guitar. This then has the added benefit of training your ears. 

Taking this approach will lead to your solos and melodies becoming more original and "you", and not lick based which is basically done to death already. 

I came to put this. I'm a big fan of starting by learning lots and lots of whatever type of solos you want to play and conciosuly thinking about how the patterns they create map across between chords, and where the similarities and differences are between solos in different songs.

But this is the endgame, particularly if you want to improvise. All the good solos - improvised or otherwise - are just melodies. I hate the bog standard "learn the pentatonic boxes" advice that's always trotted out on youtube, because all that teaches you is the safe patterns that will rarely be "wrong" but alone will produce nothing more than really generic music. 

Learn to play melodies and you'll pick up the shapes and patterns along the way. 

CaseOfAce

stratman3142 said:

CaseOfAce said:

Box 1 Pentatonic Blues Scale - and add the seasoning (bends, hammer ons, phrasing, pull offs, legato, double stops, slides, learning the licks in that position of your favourite players) followed by learning it all over the fretboard and how it can be used over a 12 bar and beyond.

By 'Pentatonic Blues Scale', do you mean a minor pentatonic with a b5. 

Taking the Verses of Under The Bridge as an example. They're in E major. I'm not a fan of the sound of a blues scale in that context. It might be better to go for an E major pentatonic in that situation, and add the 4 and the 7 to taste.

But I suppose it's all down to personal taste.

Yep - the flattened 5th i.e. the "blue" note as I've heard it described.