Disappointing Harley Benton experience.

BigPaulie

I bought myself a HB CLJ 412E 3SB

https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_custom_line_clj_412e_3sb.htm


First impressions were largely good. Once tuned to concert pitch and stabilised (this took ages, maybe due to the excess turns of string around the tuning posts) it sounded lovely. Very impressive. It's also a good looking guitar and cosmetically it's quite impressive. It's not hard to find minor finishing flaws, but it's a £250 guitar, not a Collings.

The setup is pretty shocking. Some measurements below:

First thing I did was dial in my preferred relief of 0.25mm.

Action 1st fret

0.75mm (high side)

0.9mm (bass side)

Action 12th fret

2.5mm

3.5mm

Saddle height

2.60

4.13

Those numbers will take some serious fettling to get them where I like them. Between 0.3mm and 0.15mm (low to high) deeper nut slots. Around 1.4mm will require to come off the saddle which would leave me with only 1.2mm of saddle on the high e side.

The saddle is not a good fit for the slot and has a significant lean towards the soundhole.

There are several high frets.

There is also evidence of the beginnings of a collapse in the top to the bass side of the soundhole when viewed under a straight edge.

Tuning machines are very tight.

I really wanted this experience to be better. I've emailed Thomann to see what they recommend.

guitarjack66

I've only had one Harley Benton,an acoustic,a very cheap one. It was pretty crap to be honest. Even after a set up I simply couldnt get on with it and it was sold soon afterwards. It seems these Harley Bentons involve a large dose of luck in how they turn out and electrics seem to be much better than acoustics.

bertie

buy cheap,  buy plain.    you got a much better chance of getting something "ok"    too much bling and that's where the ££ goes.    IME anyway

BigPaulie

I agree, bertie.

I'd have preferred a guitar without the inlays, multi ply binding and electronics, but was fished in by all the reviews.

maltingsaudio

Buying blind , and acoustic, and a 12 string , at the Harley Benton price point, is always going to be a gamble. Hope you get it sorted but not quite sure what you expect for your money. Looking at the  specs you want, they are ambitious for a cheap instrument straight out of the box, but I expect a decent pro set up would sort it, you don’t get that with a cheap box shifter. I would be more worried by the top collapsing which is a case to send it back

Epsilon

Hate to say it BigPaulie, but what you've got there is tarted up firewood. All cosmetics and no substance. Basically what I'd expect from the listing to be honest. 

Get a used Guild GAD/Westerly series 12 string and you'll have much more guitar for not that much more money.

BigPaulie

maltingsaudio said:

Buying blind , and acoustic, and a 12 string , at the Harley Benton price point, is always going to be a gamble. Hope you get it sorted but not quite sure what you expect for your money. Looking at the  specs you want, they are ambitious for a cheap instrument straight out of the box, but I expect a decent pro set up would sort it, you don’t get that with a cheap box shifter. I would be more worried by the top collapsing which is a case to send it back

You know what they say: "If it seems too good to be true..." I should've known better.

In my defence, all the reviews I've seen about this guitar have raved about it.

I'm more than capable of sorting the action/setup and making a new saddle that fits the slot but that would leave me with an effective starting point of 1.2mm of saddle with the prospect of having to lower further as the top collapses.

All I'm looking for is a solid topped 12 string that is structurally sound. I wouldn't have gone for the bling and electrics were it not for the reviews. I'll just return it and go back to the drawing board.

maltingsaudio

BigPaulie said:

maltingsaudio said:

Buying blind , and acoustic, and a 12 string , at the Harley Benton price point, is always going to be a gamble. Hope you get it sorted but not quite sure what you expect for your money. Looking at the  specs you want, they are ambitious for a cheap instrument straight out of the box, but I expect a decent pro set up would sort it, you don’t get that with a cheap box shifter. I would be more worried by the top collapsing which is a case to send it back

You know what they say: "If it seems too good to be true..." I should've known better.

In my defence, all the reviews I've seen about this guitar have raved about it.

I'm more than capable of sorting the action/setup and making a new saddle that fits the slot but that would leave me with an effective starting point of 1.2mm of saddle with the prospect of having to lower further as the top collapses.

All I'm looking for is a solid topped 12 string that is structurally sound. I wouldn't have gone for the bling and electrics were it not for the reviews. I'll just return it and go back to the drawing board.

Good luck buddie!

BigPaulie

Epsilon said:

Hate to say it BigPaulie, but what you've got there is tarted up firewood. All cosmetics and no substance. Basically what I'd expect from the listing to be honest. 

Get a used Guild GAD/Westerly series 12 string and you'll have much more guitar for not that much more money.

The Guild Westerly f2512e is on sale at Jimmy Egypt's for £413. I may take a swing by tomorrow.

Tannin

Sorry to hear all that @BigPaulie. I agree with @maltingsaudio that everything can be sorted easily enough except the top collapse, which is a cast iron send-it-back fault. 

On a different point though, haven't times changed! Today for £249 you nearly got a nice guitar - and a 12-string, which is always a harder ask. It had a wonderful sound and a less than perfect but playable setup. Back in the day, for the equivalent of £249 (£10.30), you would have got a hopelessly unplayable pile of utter rubbish with 12th fret action more measured in inches than millimetres.

drofluf

BigPaulie said:

All I'm looking for is a solid topped 12 string that is structurally sound. I wouldn't have gone for the bling and electrics were it not for the reviews. I'll just return it and go back to the drawing board.

@BigPaulie I’ve got this for sale in the classifieds https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/258895/vintage-paul-brett-12-string#latest if it’s of interest?

Had it set up by a local tech, plays really well, I just don’t play it enough 

BigPaulie

drofluf said:

BigPaulie said:

All I'm looking for is a solid topped 12 string that is structurally sound. I wouldn't have gone for the bling and electrics were it not for the reviews. I'll just return it and go back to the drawing board.

@BigPaulie I’ve got this for sale in the classifieds https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/258895/vintage-paul-brett-12-string#latest if it’s of interest?

Had it set up by a local tech, plays really well, I just don’t play it enough 

That's very nice. However, I should have said:

All I'm looking for is a solid topped *large-bodied* 12 string that is structurally sound.

Kittyfrisk

BigPaulie said:

drofluf said:

BigPaulie said:

All I'm looking for is a solid topped 12 string that is structurally sound. I wouldn't have gone for the bling and electrics were it not for the reviews. I'll just return it and go back to the drawing board.

@BigPaulie I’ve got this for sale in the classifieds https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/258895/vintage-paul-brett-12-string#latest if it’s of interest?

Had it set up by a local tech, plays really well, I just don’t play it enough 

That's very nice. However, I should have said:

All I'm looking for is a solid topped *large-bodied* 12 string that is structurally sound.

A clean LAG Tramontane GLAT200D12CE of any interest??

BigPaulie

Kittyfrisk said:

BigPaulie said:

drofluf said:

BigPaulie said:

All I'm looking for is a solid topped 12 string that is structurally sound. I wouldn't have gone for the bling and electrics were it not for the reviews. I'll just return it and go back to the drawing board.

@BigPaulie I’ve got this for sale in the classifieds https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/258895/vintage-paul-brett-12-string#latest if it’s of interest?

Had it set up by a local tech, plays really well, I just don’t play it enough 

That's very nice. However, I should have said:

All I'm looking for is a solid topped *large-bodied* 12 string that is structurally sound.

A clean LAG Tramontane GLAT200D12CE of any interest??

I've got a couple of irons in the fire locally, but shoot me some details and an asking price and I'll take a look. Cheers.

DavidR

That's a shame. Sorry for your disappointment. Can you send it back? Takes me back to a Gibson Mark I once bought. Huge disappointment there too.

I might be wrong but I strongly suspect that the build quality necessary to get the price down to the amazingly low HB prices might not be hardy enough to cope with a 12 string? The strain across the strings for a 12 string is a factor several times greater than a 6 string as you know. If all they've done is slap a 12 string headstock and 12 string bridge on an un-strengthened normally braced and thicknessed top, the bridge will pull up and the top will bow outwards and that would cause at least some of the bad features you describe. Probably you know all that.

Try sighting down the fingerboard from above with the instrument on a stand. You should be able to spot some of this, especially if you have a well set up acoustic to compare it with. Or lay a metal straight edge length wise across the top and make a similar comparison.

It would be interesting to hear from any tFB luthiers in the thread. They would know.

BigPaulie

The guitar has been sent back.

Thomann have made the whole process really easy as expected.

TTony

Coda have a Taylor 150e 12 string.

S/h, but unmarked and as new.  At least, it was when I p/ex'd it with them.

It's 3x the price of the HB, and 10x the guitar.

Kittyfrisk

Sorry I didn't get back to you. Time of year, busy with family stuff, sickness & ... I forgot.
I reckon by the time I got round to sorting it out you'll probably have found yourself another... 
It's like this https://reverb.com/item/61119799-lag-tramontane-t200d12dce-acoustic-electric-12-string-guitar

YouTube demo (not by me!)  

BigPaulie

I just went ahead and got a Yamaha FG820-12 like I should have done in the first place.

However, I jumped the gun when saying Thomann have made the returns process easy. 8 days after returning the guitar I'm still waiting on my refund. I'm sure I'll get it eventually, but I'm less than impressed with the experience overall.