New acoustic time: what am I looking for?

bermudianbrit

Hi All,

 

Having recently sold an acoustic that wasn’t quite what I was looking for, I have been on the hunt and would love to tap into the collective wisdom found in these parts.

I have a Huss & Dalton OM which is a stunning piece – sinker mahogany and European spruce and that is my primary acoustic because the majority of what I play is fingerstyle. Acquired it from @GRBaldwin of this parish . However, what I’d like is a cannon of an acoustic to do that big strumming thing and some bluegrass picking as well – I’m a fan of Billy Strings and Molly Tuttle and all of those pickers.

 

I’ve recently had the chance to play a friend’s Gibson SJ200 and absolutely loved it – it was big and bold but also bright in a way that appealed to me. I then played a Gibson J45 studio and a Martin D35 in a shop. The Gibson J45 studio had the really nice bright thing but wasn’t as loud as I would have preferred. The D35 was really, really dark in comparison and (I know this is heresy) I didn’t rate it as highly! The other problem with the J45 studio was that the neck was really, really small. I found it mildly uncomfortable.

 

The issue is that SJ200s are insanely expensive. I’d be willing to go up to the £2.5k mark used but not much over that. I’m seeing SJ200s for almost 5k new!

I’m also not opposed to the Martin thing I just found that particular example super dark in a way that didn’t work for me.

 

As a secondary question: what pickup are we recommending these days? I have a K&K mini in my Huss & Dalton and like it – anyone added the mic attachment from K&K? What about the Anthem?

 

Thanks

 

Matt

TimmyO

caveat: I'm not the best player but my experience of trying things of that ilk:

I had a 'J45 Vintage' and agree it's less impactful than some full-on Dreads. D35 I had the same experience - was excited to try one alongside a load of other Martins and similar things but it just sounded less 'alive' 

I liked the D-28 Reimagined more than the regular D-28 (it seemed a bit louder and generally a bit more articulate - but that might just have been a product of 'louder') 

But the absolute standout were the 3 (!) Authentics (2 '37s and one whatever the other year they do is) I played. Obviously they are much more expensive but they made all the others suffer by comparison. I really shouldn't have tried them :-) 

I'm going the other way - I've gone off Dreads and want a great-sounding OM-style thing now. 

tomjax

I believe the J45 studio has a shallower body than the standard J45, and is maple or walnut rather than mahogany. I'd say it's worth trying the standard if you're looking for more volume.

Also, if it's mainly for strumming duties, the J45 really sings with 13-56 strings on it. It's my only guitar I don't use 12-53s on, and I find the heavier strings stand up to strumming/flat picking much better.

mo6020

I love a J-45, but if that's not floating your boat you should try a D-28. They're absolute cannons.

You should take a look at an Atkin D37, too. I've loved every Atkin I've played (and own an OM from them). 

TheMadMick

If you are prepared to buy  sight unseen, I'm sure Steve at Avalon would cut you a deal for not  lot more than £2.5k. Avalon necks do tend towards the chunky side. You would then have a custom, hand made guitar that, to my  ear, blows most everything else out of the water.

If you are in or near Merseyside any time, let me know and you could try mine. PM me.

stickyfiddle

D18 > D28 

I had an HD28 that I thought was a forever guitar until I foolishly played a couple of Bourgeois (Bourgeoisie?), including a mahogany D18-alike that came home with me from the other side of the planet when I was meant to be on holiday. 

You won't get one of those in-budget in the UK, sadly, but I'd second the Atkin recommendations - they're the only thing that comes close outside of megabucksland imo. 

FWIW I've never liked D35s - too polite and fancy, and a dread shouldn't be fancy unless it's a Dove. And with that in mind, don't discount a Dove - kinda a cross between a normal dread and the hifi J200 thing and they're incredible when you get a good one. 

But srsly, don't buy anything until you've tried enough D18-types to know what a good one of those can do

GRBaldwin

Hi Matt @bermudianbrit ;

Happy New Year and hope you’re doing well!

Glad to hear you’re still enjoying the H&D Custom OM, it certainly is a stunning guitar.

With regards to the new search, I’ve got a Martin HD28V 175th Anniversary model I’m selling. That’s an awesome dreadnought and wipes the floor with any Atkin dread or D28 Reimagined I’ve played. It’s a tiny bit over the budget, but you’re more than welcome to come and have a play.

Otherwise, as @TheMadMick has mentioned, you can’t go wrong with an Avalon either. Whilst sharing some similarities to a Lowden, with the bridge pin design they’re so much better suited to strumming and picking work in my opinion. I’m a dealer for them, so give me a shout if one of those is of interest, like a Jumbo Pioneer model for example if you’re looking at a J200 type thing and sure I could wrangle it to around about your budget.

All the best,

Graeme

Musical_Mystery_Tour

Not a recommendation as such, but more of a look with your ears and not your eyes, and ignore the logo on the end, tale.

Some years ago, I watched a video on youtube where someone compared five acoustic guitars, but did it with audio only, then did a follow up video a week later, and it was quite surprising. They compared five acoustic guitars and asked people to rate them in the comments, one to five, just off the audio, then they would reveal what they were a week later. 

The guitars were a custom-built acoustic of about 20 grand price tag, a Martin, a Taylor, a Takemine and a cheap Silvertone. Amost everyone rated either the custom built one or the Martin or Taylor at number one, but nearly everyone then put the cheap Silvertone in second place and the others followed in various third fourth and fifth places. In some cases people rated the Silvertone at number one, including me.

On the basis of that, I sought out a Silvertone like the one on that test, which was easier said than done since it tends to be somethng sold in the US, and I could only find one shop in the UK (Chase, in Manchester) which sold the Silvertone acoustic. So I went to that shop and got one, which I think I paid eighty quid for. I put a sound hole pick up on it, swapped the tuners for better ones, lowered the nut slots and the bridge a bit, and started gigging with it; other guitarists at gigs always comment on how good it sounds, want to know what it is and give it a try, since Silvertone is not well known in the UK. I usually relate the above story to them when letting them try it out.

I have a theory that it is the cheap, extremely thin wood it is made from which allows it to resonate a lot, and that's what makes it sound so good. I have some allegedly 'better' acoustic guitars; Fender, Epiphone, and so on, but the Silvertone is vastly superior to all of them. 

Interestingly, I also have a Harmony Sovereign. As you probably know, that's the acoustic guitar Jimmy Page used on the recording of Stairway to Heaven and that too was a fairly cheap guitar when it was made. The story with them is that the manufacturer got lucky and used some wood which dried out beautifully by pure chance, and that's what makes them sound good, although I suspect that Led Zeppelin connection is what pushes the price up on them these days more than the actual tonal qualities, as to me it sounds okay, but nothing special. It's worth noting that these too are fairly thin wood, with most of them needing a bridge doctor repair to make them playable after so many years under string tension, and I guess that might occur with that Silvertone one day.

That's also true as to what happened with Stradivarius violins by the way. They too were fairly mediocre instruments at the time of their construction, but the combination of the varnish and how the wood dried out made them attain nice qualities as they aged.

Winny_Pooh

You should try a few D28 (more treble & bass)or D18 (more thick mids) style guitars.
Aside from Martins I think Atkins are great in the +£3k mark & Eastman under £1.5k.

Gibsons with the short scale & mahogany won't punch as hard unless you get an Advanced Jumbo (long scale rosewood dreadnought) 

bermudianbrit

Ah don't worry, @Musical_Mystery_Tour. I am actually blind from birth, so I've never purchased on visual grounds .

A trick I've learned is to ask dealers not to tell me what I'm playing so I'm not influenced at all by it.

When I got the H&D, I picked it out of a 4-strong lineup twice in succession, then asked @GRBaldwin to play all 4of them and picked it again each time. It seems to work well for me .

Matt

thomasross20

@Musical_Mystery_Tour ;
was the Silvertone satin finish or gloss?

Smellyfingers

if you can hover your budget a bit, I think the biggest brightest, loudest howitzer of an acoustic is Guild F512 12 String.

The maple version has completely different woods from yours H&S, I’d love to have one but they cost£4k.

A good sign though is that they are almost never available seconf hand

Wazmeister

Matt, hope all is well

I went on a similar journey, and to my amazed, my ‘ears’ chose a Martin D28 Custom Shop Ltd North Street. This was from Coda, and my thread is here;

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/249111/ngd-the-quest-lowden-vs-martin-vs-others/p1

Good luck and enjoy the jpurney !

Musical_Mystery_Tour

thomasross20 said:

@Musical_Mystery_Tour ;;;;
was the Silvertone satin finish or gloss?

Well, that's another interesting aspect to it. Being that they are basically cheap guitars, they were frequently given some fairly gaudy finishes, including the one I bought, which had a black gloss finish with a Kiss logo on it and a picture of Paul Stanley since Kiss are notorious for putting there logo on everything from lunch boxes to guitars, in order to make revenue. I resprayed that part of it black, so it is now all gloss black.

This is what it used to look like and so you can probably tell why I resprayed that part of it:

https://rvb-img.reverb.com/image/upload/s--WIx9GVvv--/f_auto,t_large/v1692939021/cuwcgsiroxcqlhbqjnhp.jpg

thomasross20

Wow lol

mo6020

Wazmeister said:

Matt, hope all is well

I went on a similar journey, and to my amazed, my ‘ears’ chose a Martin D28 Custom Shop Ltd North Street. This was from Coda, and my thread is here;

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/249111/ngd-the-quest-lowden-vs-martin-vs-others/p1

Good luck and enjoy the jpurney !

I've been eyeing one of these for a while. Are you still enjoying it? 

munckee

I had an SJ100 walnut which had depth and volume and quality to the sound but not the brightness.  I have a Guild Spruce D25 from the 80s now, one of the arch backs, its an absolute howitzer of a dreadnought, has the depth and volume and quality of the gibson with the brightness the gibson lacked -  although doesn't have a pick up.  Makes me smile every time I first strum it again.

Stuckfast

If you can find a US-made Guild maple jumbo, it should be well within your price range, and awesome.

deejayen

Stuckfast said:

If you can find a US-made Guild maple jumbo, it should be well within your price range, and awesome.

Yes, I've just bought one of them, and for some things it sounds quite impressive.  I've only tried a handful of SJ200's in the shops, but thought most were a bit 'dead', and they were all very expensive.  The best one or two were 'even' sounding, but I still couldn't decide if they were for me.  I think I probably preferred the one Gibson Dove that I tried.

I thought the Guild was a bit reserved, but fairly well balanced.  However, when I got it home and cleaned it up and fitted new strings it became something else!  I'm still getting used to it, and will try different strings and maybe picks.  It's very rich sounding, but the treble strings are maybe slightly thin-sounding compared with what I'm used to (a Gibson LG-2).  However, that just changes what I play on it.  It's bright, but not in a bad way.  It also has bass when required.  The bass is really nice when played with a bare thumb.  With some strumming styles it almost has a 12-string thing going on.  They're definitely worth checking out.

DavidR

How about this. No idea what they sound like, but they're damned pretty! I get you are blind so appearance not so much a thing, but don't forget the aircraft principle - if it looks good it will fly well!

Eastman AC630 BD-Eastman AC630-BD-Richards Guitars Of Stratford Upon Avon (rguitars.co.uk)

Came across it a year or two back whilst browsing and was very taken. Not for me though. Dreadnoughts are too big for me now and I think this would be too.

thomasross20

I've got a question.... 

If the sound is largely dictated by the top...
And the sound improves with age because the top ages...
Doesn't a laminate guitar also then improve with age, assuming the top is solid wood?