Gibson Falcon 20 making a comeback

Cols

Indeed - I wouldn’t really have seen these as a natural competitor to the Tonemaster.

I can’t remember any notable guitarist using a Gibson amp on a regular basis - indeed, the only one I can think of is Lenny Kravitz using a Gibson Skylark to record Are You Gonna Go My Way - so these really fall into the ‘quirky valve amp’ bucket.  Their natural competition is the likes of Fender’s pawn shop series, Orange, Supro and Magnatone.

Jota

Cols said:

Indeed - I wouldn’t really have seen these as a natural competitor to the Tonemaster.

I can’t remember any notable guitarist using a Gibson amp on a regular basis - indeed, the only one I can think of is Lenny Kravitz using a Gibson Skylark to record Are You Gonna Go My Way - so these really fall into the ‘quirky valve amp’ bucket.  Their natural competition is the likes of Fender’s pawn shop series, Orange, Supro and Magnatone.

Madison Cunningham uses an old Falcon to record. She says she tried to tour it but it's a fragile amp.
I gigged mine (Epiphone version) once and also had problems. It's a 60 year old amp with original tubes and speaker, so...

Fingers657

elstoof said:

Fingers657 said:

Are they made in China ?
Because they look very similar to the White Monoprice & Harley Benton tube combos ??

Theyre wrapped with the blonde tolex Gibson used on their 50s amps

Who stores tolex  that long ??

Litterick

Jota said:

Cols said:

Indeed - I wouldn’t really have seen these as a natural competitor to the Tonemaster.

I can’t remember any notable guitarist using a Gibson amp on a regular basis - indeed, the only one I can think of is Lenny Kravitz using a Gibson Skylark to record Are You Gonna Go My Way - so these really fall into the ‘quirky valve amp’ bucket.  Their natural competition is the likes of Fender’s pawn shop series, Orange, Supro and Magnatone.

Madison Cunningham uses an old Falcon to record. She says she tried to tour it but it's a fragile amp.
I gigged mine (Epiphone version) once and also had problems. It's a 60 year old amp with original tubes and speaker, so...

Bill Frisell:

DB: When you said you had an amp that was “your amp,” what was that?

BF: Like that one over there, that Gibson [Explorer GA-18]. That’s not the exact one, but I’ve had that amp for almost 20 years. And before that I had another one. A really small, sort of old ‘50s Gibson amp that I was just comfortable with.

DB: Didn’t Jim Hall have a Gibson amp that had two different speakers in it?

BF: That’s a GA-50. I actually have one of those. It’s incredibly cool. It has a 12” and an 8” speaker. It’s from the early ‘50s. And there might even be some sort of primitive crossover in there, something. It has a huge bottom end but it’s also real clear. It’s an amazing amp. All those records with Art Farmer, Bill Evans and Sonny Rollins—all those records of the ‘50s and ‘60s—that was the amp. But [these days] it’s also incredibly hard to keep in repair.

Cols

Litterick said:

Jota said:

Cols said:

Indeed - I wouldn’t really have seen these as a natural competitor to the Tonemaster.

I can’t remember any notable guitarist using a Gibson amp on a regular basis - indeed, the only one I can think of is Lenny Kravitz using a Gibson Skylark to record Are You Gonna Go My Way - so these really fall into the ‘quirky valve amp’ bucket.  Their natural competition is the likes of Fender’s pawn shop series, Orange, Supro and Magnatone.

Madison Cunningham uses an old Falcon to record. She says she tried to tour it but it's a fragile amp.
I gigged mine (Epiphone version) once and also had problems. It's a 60 year old amp with original tubes and speaker, so...

Bill Frisell:

DB: When you said you had an amp that was “your amp,” what was that?

BF: Like that one over there, that Gibson [Explorer GA-18]. That’s not the exact one, but I’ve had that amp for almost 20 years. And before that I had another one. A really small, sort of old ‘50s Gibson amp that I was just comfortable with.

DB: Didn’t Jim Hall have a Gibson amp that had two different speakers in it?

BF: That’s a GA-50. I actually have one of those. It’s incredibly cool. It has a 12” and an 8” speaker. It’s from the early ‘50s. And there might even be some sort of primitive crossover in there, something. It has a huge bottom end but it’s also real clear. It’s an amazing amp. All those records with Art Farmer, Bill Evans and Sonny Rollins—all those records of the ‘50s and ‘60s—that was the amp. But [these days] it’s also incredibly hard to keep in repair.

I would (perhaps unfairly) contend that none of those are notable guitarists, on the basis that I’ve never heard of them.  Apart from Sonny Rollins, who’s very famous but played saxophone rather than guitar.

idiotwindow

Bill Frisell is fairly well known but I don't think he ever tours with a Gibson amp, it's the kind of thing he plays in Fretboard Journal videos on Youtube.

In any case, those amps are original vintage Gibson amps. The new amp is a new design in a retro cabinet, not even a reissue as fas I know. That said, I think they will sell. They are not ridiculously priced and will appeal to people who like the Gibson brand. I'm not sure they have so much appeal to the more informed amp buyer because, at around £2k, they are firmly in lower end Tone King or upper end (hand wired) Fender or Vox territory.

willo

Gut shot here: https://www.reddit.com/r/GuitarAmps/comments/199xm1p/new_gibson_falcon_guts/

Power_Freak

Cols said:

Litterick said:

Jota said:

Cols said:

Indeed - I wouldn’t really have seen these as a natural competitor to the Tonemaster.

I can’t remember any notable guitarist using a Gibson amp on a regular basis - indeed, the only one I can think of is Lenny Kravitz using a Gibson Skylark to record Are You Gonna Go My Way - so these really fall into the ‘quirky valve amp’ bucket.  Their natural competition is the likes of Fender’s pawn shop series, Orange, Supro and Magnatone.

Madison Cunningham uses an old Falcon to record. She says she tried to tour it but it's a fragile amp.
I gigged mine (Epiphone version) once and also had problems. It's a 60 year old amp with original tubes and speaker, so...

Bill Frisell:

DB: When you said you had an amp that was “your amp,” what was that?

BF: Like that one over there, that Gibson [Explorer GA-18]. That’s not the exact one, but I’ve had that amp for almost 20 years. And before that I had another one. A really small, sort of old ‘50s Gibson amp that I was just comfortable with.

DB: Didn’t Jim Hall have a Gibson amp that had two different speakers in it?

BF: That’s a GA-50. I actually have one of those. It’s incredibly cool. It has a 12” and an 8” speaker. It’s from the early ‘50s. And there might even be some sort of primitive crossover in there, something. It has a huge bottom end but it’s also real clear. It’s an amazing amp. All those records with Art Farmer, Bill Evans and Sonny Rollins—all those records of the ‘50s and ‘60s—that was the amp. But [these days] it’s also incredibly hard to keep in repair.

I would (perhaps unfairly) contend that none of those are notable guitarists, on the basis that I’ve never heard of them.  Apart from Sonny Rollins, who’s very famous but played saxophone rather than guitar.

If Jim Hall is not a "notable guitarist" there's no hope for anybody... You can draw a line from basically any jazz guitarist since directly to Jim.

Also check out Bill's discography, he's certainly (more than) notable from the sheer range of sessions he's appeared on (before you even get into his own records).

Jota

Power_Freak said:

Cols said:

Litterick said:

Jota said:

Cols said:

Indeed - I wouldn’t really have seen these as a natural competitor to the Tonemaster.

I can’t remember any notable guitarist using a Gibson amp on a regular basis - indeed, the only one I can think of is Lenny Kravitz using a Gibson Skylark to record Are You Gonna Go My Way - so these really fall into the ‘quirky valve amp’ bucket.  Their natural competition is the likes of Fender’s pawn shop series, Orange, Supro and Magnatone.

Madison Cunningham uses an old Falcon to record. She says she tried to tour it but it's a fragile amp.
I gigged mine (Epiphone version) once and also had problems. It's a 60 year old amp with original tubes and speaker, so...

Bill Frisell:

DB: When you said you had an amp that was “your amp,” what was that?

BF: Like that one over there, that Gibson [Explorer GA-18]. That’s not the exact one, but I’ve had that amp for almost 20 years. And before that I had another one. A really small, sort of old ‘50s Gibson amp that I was just comfortable with.

DB: Didn’t Jim Hall have a Gibson amp that had two different speakers in it?

BF: That’s a GA-50. I actually have one of those. It’s incredibly cool. It has a 12” and an 8” speaker. It’s from the early ‘50s. And there might even be some sort of primitive crossover in there, something. It has a huge bottom end but it’s also real clear. It’s an amazing amp. All those records with Art Farmer, Bill Evans and Sonny Rollins—all those records of the ‘50s and ‘60s—that was the amp. But [these days] it’s also incredibly hard to keep in repair.

I would (perhaps unfairly) contend that none of those are notable guitarists, on the basis that I’ve never heard of them.  Apart from Sonny Rollins, who’s very famous but played saxophone rather than guitar.

If Jim Hall is not a "notable guitarist" there's no hope for anybody... You can draw a line from basically any jazz guitarist since directly to Jim.

Also check out Bill's discography, he's certainly (more than) notable from the sheer range of sessions he's appeared on (before you even get into his own records).

If we're talking all Gibson amps, Luke Doucet plays a Gibson amp (GA-18 Explorer) all the time.

Jota

Sometimes, two of them!

idiotwindow

willo said:

Gut shot here: https://www.reddit.com/r/GuitarAmps/comments/199xm1p/new_gibson_falcon_guts/

I like that it states "Hand-wired in Petaluma, Ca" on the back of the amp. I guess there are a few dobs of solder here and there.  Not sure mounting valves directly on the PCB is ever a great idea but I'm not surprised by the guts shown here. Somebody in the Reddit comments claims that the Falcon 20 has a fan inside. 

ICBM

willo said:

Gut shot here: https://www.reddit.com/r/GuitarAmps/comments/199xm1p/new_gibson_falcon_guts/

Lots of ill-informed bollocks in the comments about PCB-mounted preamp valves...

Pretty much *all* Mesa amps, plus many other extremely-well-made amps, have PCB-mounted preamp valves. They only cause trouble if the valves are mounted under the board with no ventilation - although this can still take decades - and in fact, mounting them horizontally aids cooling. (Or if the sockets are crappy thermoplastic ones, as used on the original Trace Elliot Velocettes, but Gibson should already be aware of that...)

Mounting power valves on a PCB is much less a good idea, but it can still be done safely if the sockets are also chassis-mounted with no air gap around them so the heat is kept outside the chassis.

PCB quality also matters, a lot - that one looks OK.

Cols

Power_Freak said:

If Jim Hall is not a "notable guitarist" there's no hope for anybody... You can draw a line from basically any jazz guitarist since directly to Jim.

Also check out Bill's discography, he's certainly (more than) notable from the sheer range of sessions he's appeared on (before you even get into his own records).

Poor choice of words on my part perhaps. 

 Rather than ‘notable guitarists’ I should have said ‘famous guitarists whose use of the amplifier will result in large numbers of people buying it’.

Not dissing Jim Hall and Bill Frisell at all, but while they’re notable jazz guitarists they're not exactly household names.

Stratavarious

Urggghh…overly middy, farty and fuzzy mess,   Pass.

ICBM

impmann said:

Am I the only one that thinks  the Falcon 20 sounds bad cranked? Too squishy and indistinct for me.

They definitely sound better not being pushed as hard. The reverb and tremolo sounds from 8'55" are pretty nice.

snowblind

Doesn't seem like he's fan of the construction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVmmur_Y-xA

Litterick

snowblind said:

Doesn't seem like he's fan of the construction.

That is how Mesa makes amps, isn't it? Nobody complains about Mesa construction, do they?

ICBM

Litterick said:

That is how Mesa makes amps, isn't it? Nobody complains about Mesa construction, do they?

Yes - two types of people, generally… repair techs who find them overly complex and difficult to work on (they can be, although on the up side they usually don’t need to be), and people who believe a lot of myths about PCB construction being bad/less reliable/cheap etc compared to “hand wiring”.

In fact, high-quality PCB construction is *better* than hand wiring - more consistent, more durable, more reliable. If it wasn’t then really critical cost-no-object systems like avionics, military and medical equipment would still be hand wired… they aren’t, they’re all PCB.

euan

snowblind said:

Doesn't seem like he's fan of the construction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVmmur_Y-xA

This guy is clearly quite clueless and a just trying to be a shock jock. His “the designer of the peavey classic 30 should be castrated” video says it all 

snowblind

Nothing at all wrong with a good PCB. My Epi BC30 has one. It is nicely laid out. You can get at the components which are all clearly labeled. And FWIW it has a notice on the front panel which says "designed and engineered in the USA by Gibson".

When I compare the relative simplicity if its design and layout compared to your average Mesa it is easy to see why, from a tech's perspective, Mesas aren't popular.

Interestingly our friend Brad in the video also has one for a BC30 wherein he got most aggravated, tearing the thing apart and bemoaning the construction and generally cursing it to hell. What he didn't know was the the common failure point on a BC30 is the standby switch. The switches are rubbish but then they were remarkably cheap new for what they are. Anyway, had he known the problem with the switches the repair would likely have taken about 5 minutes and a lot less profanity. Anyone who owns a BC30 never uses the switch anyway. Valve rectifier so the standby is surplus to requirements. And we should point out that at the end of the video, when it's all back together and he's play it he does sort of forgive it because it actually sounds quite good.  

Back to the subject of the Falcons, that board does not look to be what you would call outstanding quality. No component labeling unless its Mesa's usual thing of putting them under the components (v helpful) and the really skinny little solder pads and eyelets. Not sure siting those electrolytics directly above a hot tube is a wise design choice either. You would want to see the temperature rating on them. Given the price point one might have expected better.