Buying without trying...thoughts and experiences?

Bradders

Back in 2015 I bought my first handmade guitar. It was a Furch G24 SR limited edition. I had acutally been wanting a Lowden for years but they were always just out of reach. Upon discovering the wonderful work of Calum Graham, I was inspired by a performance of his 'Waiting' piece, played on the very same guitar. I found one on eBay brand new and ordered it without even trying it. It was coming from Stage shop, in Hungary! Thankfully it arrived after a week or so, safe and sound. The moment I picked it up, I loved it, I did have some reference having listened to some demos online. This was the first decent guitar I'd owned and so it was bound to impress me.

Ever since that guitar I have only ever purchased guitars from a distance without trying them and going purely on YT demos and instinct. The next guitar I bought was an Avalon L25 which I got for £1100 which was a steel! It too was love at first sight/touch. 

There have however been a couple of slow starters. I ended up selling the Avalon and was without a handmade guitar and started to get really antsy. I went on eBay and rather impulsively purchased a Larrivee OM 03 WW, which has an all peruvian walnut body. I really liked the unique wood combo and dark chocolate look. It arrived in near mint condition. I picked it up to play and it sounded dull, lifeless and my heart sank. I felt such remorse. But, I am a patient man. I restrung the guitar, played it some more and it slowly started to open up. I imagine, it had been sitting unplaid for a while and the wood stiffened up. With each passing day they guitar slowly grew on me. I made a point of sitting with it, really warming it up again and intently searching for its sweet spot which I started to notice. Peruvian walnut is quite unusual. It is dense and heavy with a very dry response. The guitar was very balanced and nothing really jumped out. The bass was warm and tight. It had a distinctly warmer sounding guitar all round and great for strumming. I ended really growing to like the guitar which I used live and sounded great. Eventually I decided to sell as I chanced upon a McIlroy A25 which I simply could not pass up and I was looking for a more responsive fingerstyle guitar. Needless to say it was love at first touch.

Fast forward a few years and the chance arose to get my hands on a Lowden, finally! A Lowden 010. This too was bought from a distance. I'd been listening to a chap called Fabian Holland on YT who demos the 010 beautifully. I bought the guitar very quickly. Up till this point I hadn't tried a guitar with mahogany strangely. I'd never been drawn to the wood. I really enjoyed cedar over walnut on the A25, though a little dry. The Lowden arrived and first impressions, I was dissappointed. It did arrive with an ultra light gauge of strings and the guitar just felt dead. I was genuinely going to sell it on. However, I am a patient man. I restrung the guitar with elixir 12-54's, it livened up a bit. I spent a number of hours over the next few days and the guitar opened up like no other guitar I have tried. I had built up such an expectation for Lowden and I suppose this is why I was initially disappointed. I was amazed at how much the guitar woke up. A few months on and I can litterally play the 010 for hours. The guitar is so responsive, resonant, rich with such a dynamic range its an absolute pleasure to play. It is the easiest guitar to play as I don't have to dig in to get the response I want. I am a gentle player and the guitar suits my style down to a T. It feels familiar like an old trustworthy friend. Its one of the most musical sounding guitars I've had the chance to play.

It seems I have landed on my forever guitar which I will hopefully pass down to be enjoyed by future generations. It is built so solid and just feels like it will last for generations!

I don't actually regret any of the guitars I have purchased. I have found that buying used at a distance removes all the excess options and the idea of the 'perfect' guitar. It has forced me to find the best in every instrument that has come through my hands. If one does their research and takes their time to find a good deal then the risk is low as it can be resold for a similar price, more or less. 

I would love to hear stories from fold who have bought something and not loved it at first but given it time and ended up falling for the instrument.

fastonebaz

I've bought all but 1 guitar without playing it and that's alot of guitars

Supportact

I kind of understand what you're getting at. I think if you get a quality instrument that is within the basic specs that suit you, you can probably get it to work for you. I think a lot of people discount guitars because they don't gel with them immediately, but that can often just be because it's different to what you're used to.

I bought my Fylde acoustic second hand online (but went to collect it in person) . I knew the dimensions, nut width etc was within what I can use, and that the maker has a good reputation (but I'd never played one). The first couple of weeks I had it I wasn't totally sure. But I think it was just that it was so different from my existing guitar. Now it's my favourite. It sounds great, it's just got this depth and complexity, but it took me a while to understand how to get the best out of it. Sometimes you just have to give it a chance. 

The only other guitar I bought online without playing it was my classical, again second hand. It was a bit of a punt, because I didn't have a lot of experience with classical guitars. Luckily it's great and a pleasure to play. Bit more luck involved in that one. 

Tannin

A good tale well told @Bradders. Nevertheless, I disagree entirely with your conclusion. You have been intelligent with your choices and patient enough to make the best of them, but also just plain lucky. It's not difficult to buy the wrong guitar even when you have held it in your hands and played it.The risk of getting something you don't like buying remotely is much higher. 

But more importantly, there are two additional benefits of buying in person.

(1) You can pick the best one out of several similar (or even identical) guitars which all look much of a muchness on paper.  

(2) You get real surprises. You decide (for example) that you want a Taylor and you just happen to pick up the Furch that was next to it in the rack (or the other way about). Or you see something you would not have thought of, try it, and love it. Or you try your dream guitar in the flesh for the first time and realise that it just isn't you. 

I'll give you one example: my Cole Clark Angel in Huon Pine. I would never have dreamed of buying that guitar, I had my sights set on either a Tommy E Maton or a Martin D-18, but seeing as I was in the shop to look at other things I tried it. A couple of weeks went by with me still trying every guitar I could lay my hands on and narrowing things down to a shorter and shorter list of ones I liked the most. In the end I bought the Angel even though it was well over budget and not remotely the sort of guitar I'd set out to buy in the first place. I have never regretted it. 

Perhaps the single most valuable thing you can do when you buy a guitar is bring your existing instrument with you. Play the two side by side. That is a very good way to calibrate your ears, and it really shows up whether the new one is an upgrade, a sidegrade, or a downgrade on your existing one. (If you can't take your own guitar into the shop for some reason, ask to play something similar, or at least something you are familiar with.)

PS: you can edit your original post to put the thread in the "Acoustics" section where people will find it.

HAL9000

I absolutely wouldn’t buy a guitar I hadn’t played.

I recently went shopping for a Strat, and tried out a dozen or so S-types. Out of those there were probably 9 or 10 that I wouldn’t have given house room. 2 that were there or thereabouts, and one that the instant I picked it up I knew I’d be taking it home with me. If I had bought online without trying them out then I almost certainly wouldn’t have found ‘the one’.

DavidR

Don't think I've ever bought an acoustic without playing it first. Not the case for archtops or one resonator though.

I simply have never been able to afford the 'excitement' of buying an acoustic unheard. Even then, when I was younger, I bought duds whilst I was still learning. Notably a Gibson Mark.

The tone of even the most expensive acoustics can be the opposite of what you're looking for. For example, I'm sure Taylors are marvellous guitars, but I've just never played one I liked. Acoustic tone is subjective and individual and I'm not a collector of pretty instruments I don't like the sound of.

drofluf

This thread has made me feel like a hypocrite. I'm consistently saying I'd never buy anything I hadn't played but as I look around I bought them all unseen. 

With the Telecaster my thinking was "it's a Tele, what could be wrong with it". For the others a Brook, Furch Little Jane and a Milsom it was all a case of doing research then crossing my fingers and hoping. So far I've been lucky although one I find uncomfortable to play for any length of time - but I doubt that would have been evident at a test play. 

hollywoodrox

If you buy it online you can send it back no worries  in 14 days 
  If you try it out in a shop  then realise once you get home there is something about it you didn’t notice in the shop in All the excitement etc  you’ve got to sell it on again .

stickyfiddle

Of my current guitars, 1 acoustic (of 2) was unseen, and several electrics were. All of the current unseen ones were/are bona fide keepers and guitars I play very regularly (ES-330, SG, Danocaster, Atkin). I've had a couple I bought unseen that I didn't click with (LP Custom and Ric 360) but that was more about the ergonomics of those than anything else. 

It's not that big a deal until you're talking about crossing international borders where return shipping or resale becomes more difficult. 

Though it probably does help that I'm not put off by tweaking nut slots, minor fretwork etc, and usually expect to do a bit of that on anything I buy. The Danocaster is the only electric I've had that hasn't required a single thing besides pickup height

ToneControl

Since I started buying mail-order, used guitars, the quality of mine has improved massively. 
Some don't work for me, I can sell them on without a massive loss.
Trying ones in a shop doesn't always work, I think it only works when you have already worked out your style and sound preferences, and even then they can change.
I can certainly pick out the best one from a selection now (for me), but it's rare to find a selection anywhere

JonnyBgoode

Bradders said:

Back in 2015 I bought my first handmade guitar. It was a Furch G24 SR limited edition. I had acutally been wanting a Lowden for years but they were always just out of reach. Upon discovering the wonderful work of Calum Graham, I was inspired by a performance of his 'Waiting' piece, played on the very same guitar. I found one on eBay brand new and ordered it without even trying it. It was coming from Stage shop, in Hungary! Thankfully it arrived after a week or so, safe and sound. The moment I picked it up, I loved it, I did have some reference having listened to some demos online. This was the first decent guitar I'd owned and so it was bound to impress me.

You have great taste in guitars and also players, Calum is a superb player and composer, I have a couple of his albums. I also bought a Furch (G23CRC) unseen and also couldn't be happier with it. (I learnt 'Waiting' a while back too :-)

Aqmltd

Almost without exception, I have bought without playing the instrument. And for me, it has worked out well. I hang 2 acoustics on my wall, a guild f30, and a lovely cedar topped Ayers, and I love them both - for different styles and sounds.

I have also acquired little gems which I keep for later, for the most part, unplayed prior to purchase, but played enough since, to know that with some loosening up of the wood, they will satisfy my desire for tonal  depth and quality. 

I'm lucky in that I'm not overly bothered about neck width, profile, or scale length: after a few hours my hands adapt ok.

Also, most platforms have a returns policy, which extends to "I don't much like it, can I send it back?"

But the good bit about being able to buy prior to trying is, for me anyway, that the whole market is aavailable/accessible. Various selling sites, not necessarily on home shores, can be accessed,  and instruments can be acquired. Limiting oneself to those which can be played first, clearly limits the choices available. 

There is, however, one exception to this tale. Lucky enough to be in Denmark St, London, with an open mind and a bit of windfall cash in the early 90s, I went shopping. Dudes in the shop kept pointing me to Martins, Gibson etc. But the Lowden S25 simply had the magical sound I was after at that moment. I still have it (it's worth nothing now due to miss-use but it has been repaired), but the visit to the shop opened my eyes to the benefits of hearing the options prior to making a decision. 

To sum up, if you can get a chance to hear the options avaliable, take it, but don't be shy about taking a chance on one which suits your desires, and budget, untested.

Smellyfingers

If you are buying used and unseen clearly the returns policy and respectability of the seller are crucial considerations.

Much as I hate to advertise a corporate predator , I have bought two or three cheaper used guitars, from Guitar Guitar and the experience has been good. Their used prices are far from being bargains and they will not haggle, but I think they exercise quite strict QC criteria about what they will take second hand. 

And I did return one guitar for no other reason that I did not like it and there was no problem with a refund.

Otherwise the risk of buying unseen and used is imo quite big. As with any item you have to question why the seller wants to get rid of it, and you will only get that answer by talking to them and playing it.

sir_strumalot

I've turned 180 degrees on this. In the last few years 3 out of 4 have been bought online unseen, and been great. The one I tried in the shop doesn't get played much. Trying guitars in a shop means a day travelling, and if I want to try out a few, that means several trips. Buying online I get to try it out in the comfort of my home without distraction, and if I send it back then that takes less time than driving to a guitar shop. If I was buying a Brook I'd probably make a trip to Devon though.

drofluf

sir_strumalot said:

I've turned 180 degrees on this. In the last few years 3 out of 4 have been bought online unseen, and been great. The one I tried in the shop doesn't get played much. Trying guitars in a shop means a day travelling, and if I want to try out a few, that means several trips. Buying online I get to try it out in the comfort of my home without distraction, and if I send it back then that takes less time than driving to a guitar shop. If I was buying a Brook I'd probably make a trip to Devon though.

Whilst the trip to Brook is well worth it and I'd definitely recommend it, buying any custom guitar means you're effectively buying an instrument that you've never played. The most anxious moment of my guitar buying life was opening the case on my Brook. Fortunately I wasn't disappointed.

Soupman

Not saying I'd never buy untried, but : 

Tried several Lowden's in the same dealers over weeks until one day the O25 bowled me over. Still have it, will never part with it.

Also, years ago looking for a Strat in a local shop. Tried a Texas Special, and something else, don't remember what. Neither of them did much for me, but I spotted a used Jap Strat on the wall . As soon as I plugged it in, it was streets ahead of the others. It came home with me.

Agreed, the likes of Furch & Dowina have good reputations & reviews if buying unseen, but I still think trying out first is preferable - but that's me.
You obviously have good taste, & lucky or not you have had some fine guitars. Good luck on your next quest!

 
 

bertie

drofluf said:

sir_strumalot said:

I've turned 180 degrees on this. In the last few years 3 out of 4 have been bought online unseen, and been great. The one I tried in the shop doesn't get played much. Trying guitars in a shop means a day travelling, and if I want to try out a few, that means several trips. Buying online I get to try it out in the comfort of my home without distraction, and if I send it back then that takes less time than driving to a guitar shop. If I was buying a Brook I'd probably make a trip to Devon though.

Whilst the trip to Brook is well worth it and I'd definitely recommend it, 

especially as you get to visit some of the countryside bertram grew up in - has to add a special "je ne sais quois" to the day
(unless you want a nice red-gum Tamar of course a bit closer to the M4  ) 

   don't go in anything too wide tho, the lanes after coming off the A30 at Whiddon Down, are like the human circulatory system, and Easterbrook is just off a capillary  !!    

sir_strumalot

drofluf said:

sir_strumalot said:

I've turned 180 degrees on this. In the last few years 3 out of 4 have been bought online unseen, and been great. The one I tried in the shop doesn't get played much. Trying guitars in a shop means a day travelling, and if I want to try out a few, that means several trips. Buying online I get to try it out in the comfort of my home without distraction, and if I send it back then that takes less time than driving to a guitar shop. If I was buying a Brook I'd probably make a trip to Devon though.

Whilst the trip to Brook is well worth it and I'd definitely recommend it, buying any custom guitar means you're effectively buying an instrument that you've never played. The most anxious moment of my guitar buying life was opening the case on my Brook. Fortunately I wasn't disappointed.

Well I've got a deposit on a custom build mandolin at the moment, no chance of playing one before I get it. In fact there is nowhere even selling high-end mandolins in the UK. It'll be an expensive experiment if I don't like it though.

DoctorX

I bought a Martin HD28 untried in the first couple of weeks of the first lockdown when some online shop was having a big 20% off sale. I only did because of the circumstances and because the price was so good, but it worked out really well, I love that guitar.

Bradders

I do find it interesting to read about the different approaches people take when purchasing an instrument.

I do see the value of testing a number of guitars in a shop as it opens the buyer up to the possibility of finding something they might never have considered trying before. Being able to try multiples of a particular model is also a bonus as each will have a unique voice. I've not really had this opportunity in a shop though as they tend to just one per model in what I am interested in, though having the option to try different wood combos is a big plus.

The times that I have visited shops I find that I don't feel comfortable spending longer than half an hour or so and I tend to get overwhelmed if I have too much choice on the table. I also find that I need to spend a fair amount of time with an instrument before I really get to know it and I feel most comfortable to do this at home. It is also quite a mission for me as I don't have a car. My closest spot is Project music in Exeter who do stock some great options incl Lowden, McIlroy and other great hand made guitars. I have been there a few times to try out the Lowden F models which acutally did steer me away from buying one as I prefer the O models. Budgetary constraints have also played a significant roll in how I go about finding something. After buying the Furch and selling it on I lost around £450 and I decided from then on I would buy only used. The McIlroy A25 I purchsed for £2000 in excellent condition, barely a mark on it which is over a grand less then a new one. I tend to get a pretty clear idea of what I am looking for, usually inspired by an artist I follow, I then set out to find one used online and will wait months if I have to. Eventually one pops up and I am pretty anal about retrieving as much detailed info as possible and trying to gauge the reason for the sale. I find, after a some correspondence with the seller I get a good feel for the type of person the seller is and if I feel a peace about the sale I will go for it.

Having said all that, it is my dream to one day own a custom build.

TheMadMick

My experience is that you can't tell the full tone of a guitar by playing it in the shop. All you can tell is if the instrument is comfortable to play - perhaps with a little adjustment.

What you can tell is if an instrument has such excruciating tome that no matter what, you're unlikely to ever like it.

I think the OP's experience bears that out.