Amp choices.... advice?

paulmapp8306

So, looking for an amp....and pedals.

Building from scratch, but budget isn't really of concern.  However I don't know what good is anymore lol.  Some explanation. 

I've not played much guitar for 5 years.  Started to learn piano for my 50th, and now play keys in a band and went firmly down the synth rabbit hole (spending way more than I ever did on guitars really).

Before then, back to 2008 ive been an axefx user.  First a standard. Then a 2 and then 3.  I usually go power amp and cab too, so it's more about creating my sound not a particular amp.  A Princeton model through my zilla ported studio 2 x 12 isn't the sound of a real Princeton... nor is a a jcm800.

This is why I went down the afx route,  Ultimate control over the sound,  but after 16 years I've lost real amp reference.

YouTube demos are by nature always a miced up sound with compression so while good ones help, its still not how things sound in the room.

It also doesn't help that pre afx I was humbuckers into channel switching gain machines.   Vhts, Deizels etc.  I'm now much more single coil cleans and edge of break up to mild drive.  P90s and low wind hb are as hot as I get, but strat and tele are home now.

So.... mostly home use, though my dB meter shows I'm usually 95 to 100db.. so not quiet home.   Pedal platform now rather than massive amp gain, though twin channels with decent low gain drive is fine.   Fx loop ideally as I don't like delay and modulation in front of amps.  A nice reverb is a bonus but I tend to use plate or hall reverbs so not a must have.

It's not easy to try good amps side by side.  Most places don't carry, those that do are a trek.   Andertons and peach are both 3 to 3 1/2 hours each way on a clean run.  Coda is 2.  Don't really know of anywhere else to the north/west (Manchester, Leeds etc).

I'm not even sure what flavour....except not Marshall.  I'm erring towards fender deluxe reverb base point I think, but not stuck there.  Ac 30 and Dumble styles might work too

Some options I'm debating.

Toneking imperial mk 2
Carr rambler
Red plate (not sure of model.  Pr35?)
Dr z maz 18
Matchless lightning
Bad cat cub 3
Sure badger 18
Two rock something.

Prefere a combo if it's not massive (the ones I've listed are fine in combo form).  A head means using my zilla cab and some switching options.


I'm keeping my axe fx.  It's great for recording. Headphones, high gain when I want that, and as an external fx unit for my synths.

Long post, but context is everything.

So.  Ideas and advice.   What to rule out?  Anything else yo consider?,  any other shops/sellers?  Best way to tackle testing (for amps not available at one outlet).  Happy to make trips, but for those I mention ots only 1 per day... theres no round trip really that gives time in store that also works with other consideration.

Ideally I need to narrow things down first, but without that real amp reference it's not easy.

The pedal chase after that won't be easy either lol, but once I have the base that becomes a little easier.

RiftAmps

The Brum Guitar Show is coming up, lots to try there

ecc83

Hi Paul, I am not remotely qualified to advise you (and maybe a little biased?) but what you seem to have missed out in your post is the genre of music you will be playing? That is NOT to say you will want to sound exactly like 'Joe Shmoe' but some idea of artists you respect could help?

Dave.

paulmapp8306

Lol.   Another reason I went down the axe route... I plays lots of styles...

Most recently though... 

Gilmore 
Kenny Wayne shepard
Pete Thorne
Andy timmons
Some bonamassa, his cleaner stuff
Ditto srv 

Definately getting cleaner as I get oldet

paulmapp8306

RiftAmps said:

The Brum Guitar Show is coming up, lots to try there

May not be able to get unfortunately.

Not many of the things I have in mind from the list of exhibitors either though if I get may help pont me to the style of amp to a degree.

ecc83

"

Definately getting cleaner as I get oldet" Heh! My son when he was 17+ was all over AC DC, Quo and other distortion merchants. Now in his early 50s he is playing bass for a (sort of) jazz trio and working hard on classical guitar! ....Bach an that.

Dave.

octatonic

paulmapp8306 said:

Lol.   Another reason I went down the axe route... I plays lots of styles...

Most recently though... 

Gilmore 
Kenny Wayne shepard
Pete Thorne
Andy timmons
Some bonamassa, his cleaner stuff
Ditto srv 

Definately getting cleaner as I get oldet

That says Lazy J to me.

But really there are loads of good options out there.
There is a Bad Cat Classic Pro head in the classifieds for £750 right now.
That is a lot of amp for not much money.

You'll probably chop and change a few time anyway so I would go with a bargain for now and see how you feel.

On Matchless/Bad Cat style amps.
They can be brutally loud.

The Matchless Laurel Canyon and Cold Water Canyon are two that are not brutally loud, you can get a great sound at moderate volume with good breakup.
There is a Laurel Canyon on Reverb in Wales for £2500.
I nearly bought that but ended up going for a head instead.

There is a Matchless Lightning head on Reverb for £2k. 
I've chatted to the guy and he knows his schiz.

He also has this for sale:

https://reverb.com/uk/item/64483881-bad-cat-hot-cat-30-sampson-era-30-watt-1x12-guitar-combo-2003-brown

A grand for that amp is very, very good.

octatonic

This is a bargain too.
Great amps, can be difficult to sell on, but £550 for that is very good indeed.

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/258239/budda-super-drive-30-sd30-ii-1x12-combo-550#latest

paulmapp8306

Ioctatonic said:

This is a bargain too.
Great amps, can be difficult to sell on, but £550 for that is very good indeed.

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/258239/budda-super-drive-30-sd30-ii-1x12-combo-550#latest

I did try a Budda about 20 years ago.   Really didn't like it.

NelsonP

No idea from that list. Sounds like you are in Mick from TPS territory and he seems to love his Two Rock.

Personally I'm getting gainer as I get older. Latest hobby horse is a DS1 into a Mesa .50 caliber and late 80s Marshall 1960a, with an attenuator for home use. It absolutely nails the Nirvana Nevermind tone.

paulmapp8306

NelsonP said:

No idea from that list. Sounds like you are in Mick from TPS territory and he seems to love his Two Rock.

Personally I'm getting gainer as I get older. Latest hobby horse is a DS1 into a Mesa .50 caliber and late 80s Marshall 1960a, with an attenuator for home use. It absolutely nails the Nirvana Nevermind tone.

I like both mick and Dans tones actually...  much is in the hands and pedals though lol. 

digitalkettle

octatonic said:

paulmapp8306 said:

Lol.   Another reason I went down the axe route... I plays lots of styles...

Most recently though... 

Gilmore 
Kenny Wayne shepard
Pete Thorne
Andy timmons
Some bonamassa, his cleaner stuff
Ditto srv 

Definately getting cleaner as I get oldet

That says Lazy J to me.
...

Listing my J20 for sale is on my ToDo list!

allen

I would visit Coda if you can. Much better experience than Andertons in my experience in this area. Peach are appointment only which totally puts me off.

When I invested in my first serious amp Coda let me try everything and I ended up with a Tone King Imperial (which is an amazing amp).

Fast forward 10 years and I am mostly playing on my Lazy J10LC. Not a plug for them at all, but I've drifted towards tweedy cleans.

I would avoid bad cat/matchless as I believe they only come into their own at higher volumes.

Personally, I want to like two rock amps, but I've played a couple and they come across as a bit 'hard' to me. I've noticed the likes of dan and mick say something similar when they talk about them.

Plenty of choice in the Carr range and they are superbly built.

I would also advise getting something with an effects loop as you can always stick the axefx into that for different flavours.

 Another random thought - a Vox AC10 is in my future somewhere as it really does some fab edge of breakup tones (kenny wayne shepard style). But it doesn't have an effects loop so I'm waiting for the handwired one.

snowblind

Cheap option: Laney VC30 of some description. Can be had for chump change and with maybe a change of speaker they can sounds pretty damn good.

thomasw88

.badcat new amps are phenomenal. They’re fixing the iffy transformers that plagued an initial launch, and in 30 years of gigging and serious gassing, I can say mine is the best gigging amp ive had.

paulmapp8306

allen said:

I would visit Coda if you can. Much better experience than Andertons in my experience in this area. Peach are appointment only which totally puts me off.

When I invested in my first serious amp Coda let me try everything and I ended up with a Tone King Imperial (which is an amazing amp).

Fast forward 10 years and I am mostly playing on my Lazy J10LC. Not a plug for them at all, but I've drifted towards tweedy cleans.

I would avoid bad cat/matchless as I believe they only come into their own at higher volumes.

Personally, I want to like two rock amps, but I've played a couple and they come across as a bit 'hard' to me. I've noticed the likes of dan and mick say something similar when they talk about them.

Plenty of choice in the Carr range and they are superbly built.

I would also advise getting something with an effects loop as you can always stick the axefx into that for different flavours.

 Another random thought - a Vox AC10 is in my future somewhere as it really does some fab edge of breakup tones (kenny wayne shepard style). But it doesn't have an effects loop so I'm waiting for the handwired one.

I do like Coda - to a point.   I bought my PRS from them in 99.  they dont come across quite as friendly as the others to me - I always feel a little pressured when Im in there (not been in for about 4 years mind).

Peach never used to be appointment only - however I am aware they are now (when looking for a tele) - puts me off too.   they want a weeks notice if possible, and I dont know if I can get down until the day Id go really.

FX loop is definitely needed - as when I build the analogue pedal board it will have reverb (as I like hall and plate rather than spring) and delay as a minimum - and I always like those in a loop.

paulmapp8306

paulmapp8306

thomasw88 said:

.badcat new amps are phenomenal. They’re fixing the iffy transformers that plagued an initial launch, and in 30 years of gigging and serious gassing, I can say mine is the best gigging amp ive had.

Tried the little LC15 and the big LC50 decades ago - and didnt like them, though as my tastes have changed I might now.,  My first BIG amp was a Laney VH100r

thebreeze

If budget isn’t really of concern (and looking at your list) you might want to consider a Bartel?  It’s an amp where you can craft in your own sound as it’s capable of producing such a range of sounds across the spectrum.  You can adjust and any small change will have a big impact on the sound you get.  Everything, so reverb and tremolo (if you go for a Roseland) is superlative.  They’re extremely well built so likely to last 50 years and on.  Even the 45w Roseland sounds great at bedroom levels.  

paulmapp8306

thebreeze said:

If budget isn’t really of concern (and looking at your list) you might want to consider a Bartel?  It’s an amp where you can craft in your own sound as it’s capable of producing such a range of sounds across the spectrum.  You can adjust and any small change will have a big impact on the sound you get.  Everything, so reverb and tremolo (if you go for a Roseland) is superlative.  They’re extremely well built so likely to last 50 years and on.  Even the 45w Roseland sounds great at bedroom levels.  

ill have a look.

Im actually quite taken with a divided by 13 CJ11....  Not sure if it has enough headroom for my needs - probably as they are loud for their rating.  Id also need a custom order with an FX loop (assuming they will put one on a CJ -  Ive seen them on other models).  

Ill have a look at Bartel

thebreeze

I’d be very interested to see what you think @paulmapp8306, I think Coda stock them
but they’re not made in great numbers as each one is individually built by Mark Bartel.  Mark Bartel was the maker behind Tone King amps before selling up.  I have a very early Imperial which I really like (35 years old now) which led me to explore the Bartel.  The Bartel is just as good and then some.
I forgot to mention that I’ve heard it said, maybe even from Mark Bartel himself, that any guitar will sound good through his amps but that they particularly suit single coils.
The quality and scope of sound are such that pedals (on the whole/from my perspective) cease to be necessary in my experience, which feels very liberating!