Two Rock amps. I don’t get it?

rockmonster

It seems that they have had a gazillion models of amp (all cost an arm and a leg of course because they is booteek) but 44 legacy models? Isn’t that’s 1.75 new amps a year? Can’t make their mind up or is it about making them betterer all the time? You have to have this new model coz it’s betterer than the last two previous models?
Come on I know some of you lot have them.
Explain to me the thinking behind it………………
Ive never seen one let alone played one.
Will they really make me sound like Matt Scoffield or John at Peach guitars?

Stands back after lighting the blue touch paper!

GoldenEraGuitars

Rockmonster on a one man crusade to bring down high end gear. First Fender MB, now Two Rock

rockmonster

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Rockmonster on a one man crusade to bring down high end gear. First Fender MB, now Two Rock

Au contraire I have owned, played and enjoyed a great deal of high end gear over the years.

Nerine

Find one and play one. 

rockmonster

Nerine said:

Find one and play one. 

That good eh? I just might do that. Still doesn't explain the number of models that have been discontinued…….     

sweepy

The CSRi is undoubtably the nest amp I’ve ever played or owned, they are a bit brutal where sloppiness is concerned but oh so rewarding to play 

Mr_Claw

I played my old guitar teacher's Two Rock CRS a bunch of times. Every single mistake was magnified a billion fold.

They're great sounding amps *if* you're a great guitar player. Otherwise....

Mr_Claw

sweepy said:

The CSRi is undoubtably the nest amp I’ve ever played or owned, they are a bit brutal where sloppiness is concerned but oh so rewarding to play 

Word. 

Alex2678

They’ve been around a while. I wonder if that’s what it takes to keep up in the boutique amp game - if you don’t have announcements and new ideas some new up and comer will steal everyone’s attention?
 They seem to be doing something right
With fender custom shop guitars for example each one they make has something different about it they can share on instagram etc, this is a green over paisley 55 with a gold anodised guard and such and such pickups… if two rock just keep showing off the same couple of models in black tolex it might seem a bit dull maybe?

ecc83

I don't know the amplifiers but I think Alex has hit upon the 'nub' of the issue? It looks as if 2 Rocks are all valve? That fact poses a problem for the adpuf/marketing men because there is only SO many variations you can wring out of valve circuits if you stay with the usual valve types and you don't want to stray from those because of possible supply issues down the road.

So, once you have built your "Marshall or Vox or Fender" style amp circuitry...AND got the soiund(s) and reliability you want, where do you go? The engineer would say "If ain't broke don't fix it" The marketing men will say "We gotta give them a slightly different flavour of bread and a bigger circus at NAAM this year"

The guitar amp market is a very competitive one and most of the work is not done for altruistic reasons for the punter!

But I might just have become a cynical old bastard!

Dave.

digitalscream

sweepy said:

The CSRi is undoubtably the nest amp I’ve ever played or owned, they are a bit brutal where sloppiness is concerned but oh so rewarding to play 

True enough, but any more so than a Laney VH100R (for example)? That was the clearest clean-ish amp I've ever played, completely unforgiving, but amazing to play through if you're on your game.

Also, noticeably cheaper and without claims of mojo.

To be clear, I'm not knocking anybody's purchase. I just find that there's nothing new under the sun when it comes to amps, and almost all useful designs have already been built and rebuilt many times over the years.

In fact, modelling aside, I think the last genuinely innovative and unique amp I've seen was the HT-5.

Winny_Pooh

44 legacy models, that is mad.

newi123

They are lovely amps - but so expensive I don`t even look.

The number of legacy models must be in a large part their business plan I guess. They brand on best of best, and there must be a limited market of people to sell to - so I`m sure the Gibson CS way of `this years best is even better than last yrs best` they get repeat sales from the same small demographic?

Maybe I`m wrong, old and cynical!. Actually, I`m def old and cynical - maybe I'm just wrong!

Anyway - years ago saw Matt Schofield play his in our local pub music venue - it did sound very, very nice! 

Snags

Mr_Claw said:

I played my old guitar teacher's Two Rock CRS a bunch of times. Every single mistake was magnified a billion fold.

They're great sounding amps *if* you're a great guitar player. Otherwise....

I'm intrigued by this. In the sense of "How so?". And possibly "What do you mean by mistake?".

I get that amps have different tonal qualities and will colour the sound differently, for which we use all kinds of loose analogies (soft, dark, brittle etc.) but I can't quite get my head around how an amp will be more or less revealing of mistakes (unless it's so bad at its job that you can't tell what the hell is being played in the first place). And by mistake I'm thinking of bum notes, be they mis-fretted or under/over bent etc.

goldtop

I've got no idea who runs Two Rock, but if it's driven by a single person, I can understand why he might want to change things up, find new inspiration.

Punting out the same product year after year when you are an employee is "a job", but doing the same when you are in control of your destiny is wasting your life.

StuartMac290

Snags said:

Mr_Claw said:

I played my old guitar teacher's Two Rock CRS a bunch of times. Every single mistake was magnified a billion fold.

They're great sounding amps *if* you're a great guitar player. Otherwise....

I'm intrigued by this. In the sense of "How so?". And possibly "What do you mean by mistake?".

I get that amps have different tonal qualities and will colour the sound differently, for which we use all kinds of loose analogies (soft, dark, brittle etc.) but I can't quite get my head around how an amp will be more or less revealing of mistakes (unless it's so bad at its job that you can't tell what the hell is being played in the first place). And by mistake I'm thinking of bum notes, be they mis-fretted or under/over bent etc.

Yeah, I'm always a bit bewildered by this statement too. Like, people describe the Matchless DC30 as being "unforgiving" to play, and "brutally revealing", whereas every time I play mine I'm struck by the lovely natural compression that makes it such a joy to play, it's almost like cheating.

FWIW I had a Two Rock and kept it maybe six months. It was ok, but for me it did nothing special. People rave about the clean sounds but back to back with a Tone King Imperial and a Louis Electric Columbia in the studio it was just kinda lifeless and 2D-sounding. Mine wasn't one of the mega expensive models, though, it was a Studio Pro 35. Maybe the magic is reserved for the top-end ones. 

hywelg

goldtop said:

I've got no idea who runs Two Rock, but if it's driven by a single person, I can understand why he might want to change things up, find new inspiration.

Punting out the same product year after year when you are an employee is "a job", but doing the same when you are in control of your destiny is wasting your life.

It was two people Bill Krinard and Joe Mloganoksi on the back of the first de-gooped Dumble and the info finding it's way to The Amp Garage. Then the owners sold out to Premier Builders Guild and a ruck of new cheaper models.

Then a few years back two new owners bought back the name and I think Bill Krinard still acts as a consultant. 

ecc83

I too am confused by the "brutally revealing" concept. There might of course be an analogy with monitor speakers? These can be SO clean and accurate that only the very best sound quality sounds 'right' but in a guitar amp such 'precision' would I think be some 90% in the gift of the loudspeaker.

The HT-5 was indeed unique. There had of course been 5W valve amps before but always a 12W cathode biased pentode AFAIK. Single ended, CB stages simply don't sound like or respond like a ppull fixed biased OP stage. What is not generally realized about the HT-5 is that yes, it can really only deliver about 5W of pretty clean power but you can pile on the dirt and get 10 watts out of one and that gives a whole other 'dynamic'. The amps are loud enough for many pub gigs...so long as you don't want loud cleans!

But then Blackstar went nuts and fitted a second channel AND an FX loop AND an emulated headphone output to a piddling 'practice' amp. To further enhance its design, especially for studio and home use the Five probably has the best signal to noise ratio of any guitar amp on the planet.

It got a lot of stick for not being "all valve" (but then neither was the graphic in a Boogie!) and some people did not like the sound but I don't think anyone denies its innovations?

Dave.

DougCoda

I don't find the Classic Reverb Signature or Studio Signature hard sounding at all, for me they're very forgiving , full sounding things and have a lovely compression that helps when you're having one of those days when the notes won't come out right.  ..The Vintage Deluxe have a more traditional vintage feel and the Traditional Clean and Sterling are designed to be a little stiffer.The Bloomfield and TS1 lean more into the Dumble style drive although you can still get a really nice Two Rock clean on the Bloomfield.
We all experience guitars and amps in different ways, I find Matchless and Dr z amps to be very uncompromising and not at all what I'm looking for tonally or feel wise but other players can make them sound magical.
There were quite models introduced a couple of years into the PBG era and lots of power variations, from memory most amps had 22/35/50 and 100w variations which made the range a bit wieldy to say the least.
 By all means come in and try them, see if they work for you, they might, or they might not.

ecc83

ecc83 said:

I too am confused by the "brutally revealing" concept. There might of course be an analogy with monitor speakers? These can be SO clean and accurate that only the very best sound quality sounds 'right' but in a guitar amp such 'precision' would I think be some 90% in the gift of the loudspeaker.

The HT-5 was indeed unique. There had of course been 5W valve amps before but always a 12W cathode biased pentode AFAIK. Single ended, CB stages simply don't sound like or respond like a ppull fixed biased OP stage. What is not generally realized about the HT-5 is that yes, it can really only deliver about 5W of pretty clean power but you can pile on the dirt and get 10 watts out of one and that gives a whole other 'dynamic'. The amps are loud enough for many pub gigs...so long as you don't want loud cleans!

But then Blackstar went nuts and fitted a second channel AND an FX loop AND an emulated headphone output to a piddling 'practice' amp. To further enhance its design, especially for studio and home use the Five probably has the best signal to noise ratio of any guitar amp on the planet.

It got a lot of stick for not being "all valve" (but then neither was the graphic in a Boogie!) and some people did not like the sound but I don't think anyone denies its innovations?

Dave.

CaseOfAce

I'm reminded of this scene...!

Jack Burton: I don't get this at all. I thought Lo Pan—
Lo Pan: Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!