If you were to build a tube amp only for bedroom use, nothing else,

ICBM

robgilmo said:

Guys the reason I ask is because I dont think one actually exists, I dont think there is one tube amp out there that you can turn up to break up point without annoying your neighbours. Which even makes practice amps pretty useless if you practice at home and need the amp to break up.

A ZVex Nano will do it. It might annoy others in the house, but not neighbours.

You can always use an attenuator, power scaling or master volume if you want the amp to break up earlier, the first two apply even if by break-up you only mean power amp overdrive.

goldtop

It varies, too. I live in a terraced house now, and at-home volumes are way down from when I was in a detached house and could happily play a cranked 18W without worrying about the neighbours. 

For those who live in a flat, a valve amp + Captor X + headphones is one answer. (A modeller + headphones being the other.)

Kurtis

Also any acoustic instrument could potentially worry the neighbours.
In the past the problem with guitars was they were too quiet! Making them really quiet kind of defeats the purpose somewhat.
Throw a duvet over the cab 

If it's too quiet all you hear is the strings anyway. 

robgilmo

ICBM said:

robgilmo said:

Guys the reason I ask is because I dont think one actually exists, I dont think there is one tube amp out there that you can turn up to break up point without annoying your neighbours. Which even makes practice amps pretty useless if you practice at home and need the amp to break up.

A ZVex Nano will do it. It might annoy others in the house, but not neighbours.

You can always use an attenuator, power scaling or master volume if you want the amp to break up earlier, the first two apply even if by break-up you only mean power amp overdrive.

Thats still only the size of a pedal, it seems bedroom playing = tiny amp, amps surely dont have to be tiny. Limiting max volume shouldnt also limit actual size.

Stratavarious

My Mesa boogie has a graphic EQ and adjusting that can also make it sound huge and gnarly even at very low volume.  A pull deep or extra powerful bass control can make a big difference to perception. 

maharg101

Valvepower 18w cage amp with power scaling. Full on amp overdrive down to whisper level.

MikeP

I built a 36 watt with parts from Steve (valve power) and power scaling but I find at very low Levels there's less overdrive available and more fizz. Not saying its not good and very useable. 

Modulus_Amps

The power scaling only works well to a certain level, then it starts to get nasty.

The fryette powerstation option works really well, but at very low levels I would say it is as good a a good drive channel with a good master volume.

For me the best option for low level playing that doesn't annoy neighbours or family is using load boxes with IR tech through studio monitors/headphones. A good load box is key to getting the feel right.

goldtop

MikeP said:

I built a 36 watt with parts from Steve (valve power) and power scaling but I find at very low Levels there's less overdrive available and more fizz. Not saying its not good and very useable. 

The extra fizz is normal, and for exactly the same reason that when you turn an amp off but carry on playing, the guitar tone gets super distorted and then fizzier as it fades out.

Bear in mind that you are feeding in the same guitar signal level at the input. So, as you drop the amp's internal voltages with PS/VVR/etc, you will introduce more and more distortion. More than the same amp has without PS/VVR.

(See "Brown sound" stories.)

nholme

Hi all, robrobinette.com has a few circuits, including layouts, for micro amps using a ECC82 (12AU7) as the output valve. They come out at around 1 watt. I've built a deluxe micro, JTM45 and JCM800 version using both 8 inch and 12 speakers. The 8 inch are perfect at home and give a very mature sound. The 12 inch versions are a bit loud. The designs use authentic preamps and then scale down for the power stage. Some of the circuits use a single ended 25k output transformer which is usually avaliable from Modulus,andt there are push pull versions which use a 22k5 output transformer which Primary Windings can supply. I can highly recommend them. The transformers for HT supplies are often available quite cheaply on Ebay - I've used anything between 240v ac and 280v ac and the small valves don't use a huge current. You can also fit a line out socket which can then be used for recording or to power a much bigger class D amp. The line out signal is taken from the speaker side so contains all the distortion and overdrive from all the valves and the output transformer.

There are also designs from Valveheaven.com using some repurposed TV valves and unusual ideas for the HT supplies and output transformers. I have successfully used a 100v line transformer costing less than £10 on an 18watt 2 x EL84 amp.
To keep costs down I also use 6N2P dual triode valves - available on Ebay - in place of ECC83 (12AX7), you just need to wire the heater 6.3v ac to pins 4 and 5 and leave pin 9 alone.

Nick

ecc83

Nick, make double,damn sure the speaker winding on that 100V traff is well bonded to chassis and that to mains earth. AFAIK such transformers are not made with pri/sec insulation to the standard of valve traffs because they do not have to cope with the kV you can get on a valve anode.

Dave.

Kurtis

maharg101 said:

Valvepower 18w cage amp with power scaling. Full on amp overdrive down to whisper level.

I've got an 18w'er with a simple resistor attenuator. That works fine down to pretty quiet.

Thing is, when you get right down the 12" speaker, and the cab I suppose, aren't really working properly and it becomes pointless. Imo.

At that point you're probably as well going headphones. 

maharg101

Yep, Fletcher Munsen and all that. Still sounds pretty sweet at TV levels. Depends how loud you like your TV I guess

I have a Ox box too, so all bases covered.

Jonathanthomas83

I don't get why this is still an issue/problem with the introduction of good things like reactive load boxes, nowadays. When I first heard of the Suhr Reactive Load back in 2016, I was over the moon that I could have my dream amplifiers in the bedroom and use them at whisper quiet volumes. 

Grumpyrocker

You only need an attenuator if you want the "cranked amp" sound. If you're after the preamp tone, and the amp has a good volume control, there's no need for the extra expense of attenuation. 

noisepolluter

Modulus_Amps said:

The fryette powerstation option works really well, but at very low levels I would say it is as good a a good drive channel with a good master volume.

I’m actually quite relieved to hear this! I’m perfectly happy with DSL40 preamp crunch at home-friendly levels, so unless a TAE/Fryette/Ox based rig was going to be absolutely transformative I think I’ll just keep on trucking and see what other analogue/digital developments come down the line over the next few years.

Have to say that if Boss did a new version of the Katana with the AIRD X-models from the GT1000/GX100 I’d be really interested, as through headphones at least I think they’re fantastic. 

guitargeek62

@noisepolluter - agreed, the AIRD stuff is great but a simple physical amp interface would be even better

cathodyne

If the aim is to avoid annoying neighbours then have a think about what the speaker cab is sitting on.

Airborne sound can be limited by shutting windows and doors, you can get an idea of how much is leaking by listening from outside the room.  But if your cab is on the floor (depending on house construction etc., etc.) then quite a bit of volume can be transmitted as structure borne sound.

Exorcist

I think a decent master volume is more important than wattage. I had a 2W Fuch's that was too loud for home/bedroom use, but my egnator tweaker and bognor duende are both fine at TV volume. IMHO

ecc83

This thread has been interesting and many ideas put forward but IMHO it is a bit of an exercise in futility? The sound that any one person wants from an amp is their personal idea and it is almost impossible to communicate. Then there is the impossibility of creating the effect of a fire breathing 100W 4x12 Marshall (insert valve amp of choice!) rig at 75dBSPL. If nothing else, such a rig generates an adrenalin rush nothing quieter can duplicate. We humans are scared witless by very loud noises (and fairground rides) but we enjoy the effect in a safe situation.

Mention was made that "it is not all the OP stage"? This is well put. The vast tonal opportunities of pre amp designs in Merlin Blencowe's book have hardly been explored in any commercial amplifier I am aware of ? This is especially so in respect of what can be done with a small signal pentode. Does not have to be the rather expensive EF86. Not looked but I bet you can get EF80s and EF183s, 'telly valves' for relative peanuts?

Dave.