Whats all the noise about USA made guitars?

robgilmo

What makes them different? A CNC machine in America isnt any better than one anywhere else?

Tannin

Oh yes it is. Ask anyone. They are different because they are better and if you don't understand that then you must be some sort of cheese eating surrender monkey foreigner and don't you forget it. 

robgilmo

Tannin said:

Oh yes it is. Ask anyone. They are different because they are better and if you don't understand that then you must be some sort of cheese eating surrender monkey foreigner and don't you forget it. 

Is it because....

elstoof

What’s all the noise about German made cars? What about Japanese made Boss Waza pedals? Savile Row suits? Scottish Whisky?

noisepolluter

robgilmo said:

What makes them different? A CNC machine in America isnt any better than one anywhere else?

No guarantee of better build quality, but you tend to get higher spec components if the manufacturer also has ranges built in Mexico, China etc 

timmypix

I think it's a bigger deal for Americans - home-grown, American-made, support the country etc. The same way I'm sure many of us here like the idea of stuff made in the UK. Then, of course, America is home to the biggest brands' flagship factories and origins, so they make a big deal out of it in their marketing on top of that.

There is probably something to be said for the experience of the workers that have been in those factories, but the same applies to any factory in any country, and I think there's more recognition for that in the last 15-20 years; PRS acknowledging WMI on their PRS SE headstocks when they first launched was a big deal, and now being quite happy to praise the expertise of the guys at Cor-Tek when they moved from Korean to Indonesian production. Places like WMI and Cor-Tek can build pretty much anything for anyone, and do it very well.

I think the only thing I get a bit snobby about now - and I'm well aware it's snobbiness, nothing wrong with the guitars themselves - is thickness of finish and body shapes being off. For example, the finish on PRS SEs and other Indonesian factory guitars I've owned is so thick they practically look double glazed. Epiphones are great guitars, but they cannot get any of their body shapes right so they all look slightly off. That's a personal hang-up, though.

We're definitely at the point now where pretty much any import guitar is one set-up away from being a reliable professional-grade instrument, which makes them no different to stuff built in the USA, on a practical level. What it comes down to these days is the care and attention that factories can dedicate to the build rather than the location of the factories themselves.

I'm sure some of the more life-experienced members on here will be along shortly to say how much better budget guitars are than back in their day, when all this were fields / all these far-Eastern factories were rainforests.

robgilmo

timmypix said:

I think it's a bigger deal for Americans - home-grown, American-made, support the country etc. The same way I'm sure many of us here like the idea of stuff made in the UK. Then, of course, America is home to the biggest brands' flagship factories and origins, so they make a big deal out of it in their marketing on top of that.

There is probably something to be said for the experience of the workers that have been in those factories, but the same applies to any factory in any country, and I think there's more recognition for that in the last 15-20 years; PRS acknowledging WMI on their PRS SE headstocks when they first launched was a big deal, and now being quite happy to praise the expertise of the guys at Cor-Tek when they moved from Korean to Indonesian production. Places like WMI and Cor-Tek can build pretty much anything for anyone, and do it very well.

I think the only thing I get a bit snobby about now - and I'm well aware it's snobbiness, nothing wrong with the guitars themselves - is thickness of finish and body shapes being off. For example, the finish on PRS SEs and other Indonesian factory guitars I've owned is so thick they practically look double glazed. Epiphones are great guitars, but they cannot get any of their body shapes right so they all look slightly off. That's a personal hang-up, though.

We're definitely at the point now where pretty much any import guitar is one set-up away from being a reliable professional-grade instrument, which makes them no different to stuff built in the USA, on a practical level. What it comes down to these days is the care and attention that factories can dedicate to the build rather than the location of the factories themselves.

I'm sure some of the more life-experienced members on here will be along shortly to say how much better budget guitars are than back in their day, when all this were fields / all these far-Eastern factories were rainforests.

I was thinking about this, put an epi LP standard next to a Gibbo standard and visually they are very different, but only if you compare them as one trying to be the other, compare them as seperate entities on a practical level and those differences fall away, which begs the question, what makes USA built guitars better? I know that hardware and electronics can be different but thats not in the sense that the none American ones dont work, because seemingly they do.

robgilmo

Another thing that springs to mind, especially with Epiphone (although we see it in squeirs too) is that they seem to be making more none conventional stuff, where as Gibson seem to be sticking to more classic stuff, so has Epiphone started to become Gibsons 'experimantal' line that will run along side Gibson as opposed to being a cheaper alternative? Has Gibson realised that guitar production has reached the point where cheap guitars can rival more expensive guitars? I think thigs are changing, I'm just wondering where they are taking it.

Kurtis

If anything the American ones should be less noisy. 

impmann

TBH, these days its more about retention of residual value - yes, you can buy all manner of Gibson/Fender killers that are made in the Far East. The problem is explaining how good they are to a potential buyer - the names count for a lot, no matter how righteous we all feel to the contrary.

And here is a thing - I've played more *incredible* US Fenders and Gibsons than I've played *incredible* Squiers, Epis etc. Whether or not confirmation bias is involved in this is a bit of a philosophical debate - and one that will rage for ever. 

kentuckyklira

Tannin said:

Oh yes it is. Ask anyone. They are different because they are better and if you don't understand that then you must be some sort of cheese eating surrender monkey foreigner and don't you forget it. 

I always wonder what they have with the "cheese eating" bit, considering they put cheese on pretty much everything!

robgilmo

Whats wrong with cheese? Cheese is awesome, which begs the question, why is USA cheese...... 

Dan_Halen

Nothing to do with the build quality, all to do with the way they stagger the range and perception.

The cheaper models often use cheaper hardware, cheaper materials, less TLC during build, be made in the non-US factories. The US made ones will inevitably be more top of the range so the better hardware, better woods, fancier pickups, better (well, often not) QC and be made in the US to try and build and maintain that perception that US is better. People then automatically associate 'made in USA' with better guitars because that's where the manufacturers premium stuff comes from. Also, if you're from America, you quite possibly (and fairly) have a desire to buy stuff built at home. It all feeds in to the abbreviated catch all term 'I want a US made guitar' which rolls off the tongue better than 'I'd like one of this companies high-end offerings'.

If you based it on the ability to build a guitar and that alone, absolutely no reason Fender couldn't have their custom shop stuff built in the same place as their Squiers. I mean, probably not tomorrow, but with a small amount of thought and transition. Obviously they would never do that because being made in the US of A is all part of the up-sell and marketing.

kentuckyklira

robgilmo said:

Whats wrong with cheese? Cheese is awesome, which begs the question, why is USA cheese...... 

Often USA cheese, is something almost, but not quite, entirely unlike cheese!

strtdv

Presumably the American CNC machines are working in Imperial rather than metric.
Everyone knows tone is in feet and inches

kentuckyklira

Dan_Halen said:

Nothing to do with the build quality, all to do with the way they stagger the range and perception.

If you based it on the ability to build a guitar and that alone, absolutely no reason Fender couldn't have their custom shop stuff built in the same place as their Squiers. I mean, probably not tomorrow, but with a small amount of thought and transition. Obviously they would never do that because being made in the US of A is all part of the up-sell and marketing.

I do think that how you relate to a product may have an influence on how you build it. The average Indonesian does what he´s told to do. He probably has no idea who SRV, Jimi Hendrix and co. are/were. 

PFAllen2

Historical precedent? There is am implied caché about inventing something first, or making it for a long time. It harks back to the notion of the good ole days, when things were built to last, done properly etc.

tekbow

PFAllen2 said:

Historical precedent? There is am implied caché about inventing something first, or making it for a long time. It harks back to the notion of the good ole days, when things were built to last, done properly etc.

I agree with this, and there was a point when US mass produced guitars were the most developed in terms of build, fit, finish, ergonomics, and aesthetics.

But everyone else long since caught up.

I think the Japanese surpassed them at any given price point a long time ago.

But what the Japanese don't have, for most of their brands are the mythos that was built up, and that counts for a lot in many buyer's heads

57Deluxe

...fret buzz?

Dan_Halen

kentuckyklira said:

Dan_Halen said:

Nothing to do with the build quality, all to do with the way they stagger the range and perception.

If you based it on the ability to build a guitar and that alone, absolutely no reason Fender couldn't have their custom shop stuff built in the same place as their Squiers. I mean, probably not tomorrow, but with a small amount of thought and transition. Obviously they would never do that because being made in the US of A is all part of the up-sell and marketing.

I do think that how you relate to a product may have an influence on how you build it. The average Indonesian does what he´s told to do. He probably has no idea who SRV, Jimi Hendrix and co. are/were. 

Completely and utterly disagree with all 3 things you've said and, to be honest, think your 2nd and 3rd comments are, to put it politely, incredibly unhelpful sweeping generalisations as well as being bollocks.

Strat54

Trolling thread....someone close it down now please.