Acoustic tone “opening up”

drofluf

drofluf said:

thermionic said:

I read somewhere that these are based on a similar mechanism to those found in aquarium pumps and inexpensive espresso machines (a vibratory pump as opposed to a rotary pump). A Tonerite doesn’t really need to much, and I struggle to see why a £15 one wouldn’t do the job. It will be interesting to hear your conclusions.

Well it arrived today, only 11 days from China. Won’t have a chance to test it properly for a day or so but I did a quick test, it will vibrate at different speeds/intensities. 

As I don’t think a ToneRite has some magic capability that vibrates at a different rate etc. depending on the guitar I expect it will do as good a job. Whether I’ll notice it is another question…

Well I left it on for most of the day yesterday and I think I can hear a difference. 

It may be an “Emperor’s new clothes” syndrome but as it only cost £15 I don’t think I need that much self justification. Had I shelled out on a genuine ToneRite I’d have definitely heard a difference. 

I didn’t do a “before” recording to compare properly but feel the tone is richer with more complex overtones. 

So if you’re curious I’d give one of the cheap ones a go. 

Tannin

drofluf said:

Had I shelled out on a genuine ToneRite I’d have definitely heard a difference. 

bluecat

I bought a Tanglewood 45 DLX about 22 years ago . I was told it plays and sounds like a Taylor..
It does now, it is like putting on an old pair of slippers, so comfortable and sounds superb. Far better than new.

Tannin

I just went spazzo with the credit card and ordered a Dr Herringbone Tone Traveller. It's quite a lot more expensive than a ToneRite but WTF? It's supposed to be the best of the various devices and if I'm going to try one, why not go the whole hog? 

The US postal service is pretty ordinary at the best of times and the Australian mob aren't much better, so it might take a month to get here. 

menamestom

I’ve been playing my new guitar for a few hours a day now for a week or 2 and the response has change significantly.
There is an element of ears getting used to it, but there were some lower notes that were really woofy.  Like a parametric eq had high gain on some frequencies around 150-250 hz which gave a very obvious peak.

Was playing yesterday and that’s all but gone.  Could be a change in the strings but I doubt it, they are coated and in good condition and it happened across all the would strings in varying degrees.  It could also be just being out if the case after being in a shipping container for several weeks, rather than the vibration of being played.

This is not bat ears kind of stuff, it’s so obvious a change anybody could hear it.  I have spent a lot of hours recording and mixing over the years, at a fairly basic level to be fair, but I can pick out problem areas in a mix or instrument fairly easily.  This would have had me trying all sorts, probably a different guitar in the end, whereas now after probably 20 hours playing it would record without issue.

I don’t have a tonerite but I can see it making a difference.  Ultimately my guitar is opening up nicely through playing, so it’s not something I need but I can see the potential benefit.  

sev112

My perception of that is it adjusting to your house humidity these past couple of weeks 

ToneControl

Tannin said:

I just went spazzo with the credit card and ordered a Dr Herringbone Tone Traveller. It's quite a lot more expensive than a ToneRite but WTF? It's supposed to be the best of the various devices and if I'm going to try one, why not go the whole hog? 

The US postal service is pretty ordinary at the best of times and the Australian mob aren't much better, so it might take a month to get here. 

it seems to be a noisy one.
I hope you have a spare room you can run it in

MartinB

The "opening up" concept seems quite well accepted in the double bass world, even with older instruments that have been unplayed for a while. Personally I have no idea either way, since my bass being played more always correlates with me playing more, so it's going to sound better one way or the other. Though those are some big soundboards, with low frequency notes and tall bridges that put a lot of downward pressure on them, so I presume any effect from vibration will be more pronounced there.

menamestom

sev112 said:

My perception of that is it adjusting to your house humidity these past couple of weeks 

Yeah that’s got to be a factor.  Hopefully it doesn’t go back that way if the house humidity ever matches whatever level it was before it got here.

sev112

Room humidity varies between 38 and 71, usually between 44 and 62.  South east Uk the humidity is so bloomin varied,  initially the new guitars varied quite a bit, but they also seem to settle down and get used to the changes

guitarjack66

Whether this observation is related or not to this discussion I have found my strings going flatter in the cold and sharper in the (only lately!) warmer weather. Is this usually how things go?

drofluf

Yes, that’s just physics. As it gets warmer metal expands, colder as it contracts. This manifests as strings going flat or sharp

guitarjack66

drofluf said:

Yes, that’s just physics. As it gets warmer metal expands, colder as it contracts. This manifests as strings going flat or sharp

Thanks. As I have acquired a larger collection of guitars I am only really just picking up on their quirks. Also,due to the obscene energy prices in the UK,the room I store and play my guitars in was largely unheated during the last winter and the changes in the guitar's pitch were noticeable.

Shadow

drofluf said:

Yes, that’s just physics. As it gets warmer metal expands, colder as it contracts. This manifests as strings going flat or sharp

Wouldn't it be the other way round though, flatter when they expand and sharper when they contract? That's what my tiny brain is telling me anyway!

Tannin

ToneControl said:

Tannin said:

I just went spazzo with the credit card and ordered a Dr Herringbone Tone Traveller. It's quite a lot more expensive than a ToneRite but WTF? It's supposed to be the best of the various devices and if I'm going to try one, why not go the whole hog? 

The US postal service is pretty ordinary at the best of times and the Australian mob aren't much better, so it might take a month to get here. 

it seems to be a noisy one.
I hope you have a spare room you can run it in

Yeah, I thought of that. AFTER I'd already ordered it. Mrs Tannin is very easy-going but we all have limits. Wish me luck!

drofluf

Shadow said:

drofluf said:

Yes, that’s just physics. As it gets warmer metal expands, colder as it contracts. This manifests as strings going flat or sharp

Wouldn't it be the other way round though, flatter when they expand and sharper when they contract? That's what my tiny brain is telling me anyway!

Sorry, I wasn’t clear, I’ll blame it on Covid brain := 

You’re, absolutely correct; as it gets colder the strings will contract and get sharper. The opposite when it gets warmer. 

Tannin

Well, yes, but so will the timber of the neck. Everything contracts in the cold. But, of course, metal has a higher coefficient

 of expansion so for practical purposes we can probably ignore the wood. 

But what happens with carbon fibre guitars?

With all-metal resonators?

With those 80s electric guitars with aluminium necks? 

With nylon string guitars?

guitarjack66

Tannin said:

Well, yes, but so will the timber of the neck. Everything contracts in the cold. But, of course, metal has a higher coefficient

 of expansion so for practical purposes we can probably ignore the wood. 

But what happens with carbon fibre guitars?

With all-metal resonators?

With those 80s electric guitars with aluminium necks? 

With nylon string guitars?

Bookmark this thread for 12 months and I'll let you know about how the nylon strings react! 

drofluf

guitarjack66 said:

Tannin said:

Well, yes, but so will the timber of the neck. Everything contracts in the cold. But, of course, metal has a higher coefficient

 of expansion so for practical purposes we can probably ignore the wood. 

But what happens with carbon fibre guitars?

With all-metal resonators?

With those 80s electric guitars with aluminium necks? 

With nylon string guitars?

Bookmark this thread for 12 months and I'll let you know about how the nylon strings react! 

Nylon strings are a law unto themselves. When you fit them it will take ages for them to become stable from day to day irrespective of temperature changes etc..

when they stay in tune day-to-day that’s their way of telling you that they are ready to be changed.