Acoustic tone “opening up”

SixStringSage

thomasross20 said:

Thanks yeah, definitely helped on ALL of mine. Just speeds things up, tried different settings and left it on for DAYS. Apparently doesn't work on all guitars.

what differences did you notice?

Chiliwailer

The thing that puts me off a Tonerite is this from their webpage ‘ Subsequent treatments will help maintain your new vintage sound!’ - don’t think I can be arsed to keep up with regular ‘treatments’ tbh  

BillDL

I wonder something.  If you deliberately sat and played an acoustic guitar using extremely dissonant chords for several hours a day, or subjected it to an absolute cacophany of dissonant sound for lengthy periods, would it only sound good if you played really badly? 

Tannin

^ Um ... you mean the way I normally play?

Kurtis

If you like the sound of your guitar now I wouldn't bother.
I mean once it's done you can't reverse it. 

Tannin

^ Nahhh ... Simply connect it to your guitar the other way around and run for an equal time.

malcolmkindness

As i have said before, I tried a friends tonerite on two guitars, one brand new and one 40 years old and didn't notice any difference in either. As our American friends  say "it's a crap shoot".

ToneControl

Chiliwailer said:

The thing that puts me off a Tonerite is this from their webpage ‘ Subsequent treatments will help maintain your new vintage sound!’ - don’t think I can be arsed to keep up with regular ‘treatments’ tbh  

most of mine don't need regular treatments, even when unplayed for a long while.
the only one that really needs it after a few days has an adirondack top, which is very stiff and known to "go to sleep".

ToneControl

SixStringSage said:

thomasross20 said:

Thanks yeah, definitely helped on ALL of mine. Just speeds things up, tried different settings and left it on for DAYS. Apparently doesn't work on all guitars.

what differences did you notice?

on a new guitar, it almost always makes a big difference - more responsive, etc.

I got my first Avalon second hand, unused for years, it sounded good. After I got the tonerite it sounded wonderful, much more lively and bright.

AFAIK you can overdo it, and in anycase there is a limit to what it can do.
I know that some high-end makers , and high end shops use the tonerite, so with guitars from these you wouldn't notice a difference.

As a scientific experiment, my dread with an Adirondack top is very stiff and this kind of wood is known to "go to sleep".
If I play with my nails, I end up damaging my nails, and still not getting the response and sound that I want.
After 10 minutes with the tonerite, it only needs a light touch to get the sound I want.
Strumming it hard with a plectrum for 10 minutes works too.

GTC

Yes - there's no doubt about it - a Tone-rite does indeed help - both steel strung acoustics and classicals. In my opinion, great on new guitars but also helps older ones which don't get much playing time. I've found it works best when leaving it on continuously for three days then remove it and let the guitar rest for a day or two before trying .In my experience, it sounds a lot better after a bit of a rest than when first removing the Tone-Rite

Kurtis

Tannin said:

^ Nahhh ... Simply connect it to your guitar the other way around and run for an equal time.

 


If you do get one you should do some before and after recordings, or something... 

Chiliwailer

ToneControl said:

Chiliwailer said:

The thing that puts me off a Tonerite is this from their webpage ‘ Subsequent treatments will help maintain your new vintage sound!’ - don’t think I can be arsed to keep up with regular ‘treatments’ tbh  

most of mine don't need regular treatments, even when unplayed for a long while.
the only one that really needs it after a few days has an adirondack top, which is very stiff and known to "go to sleep".

Damn, I was nearly convinced until I read about the Adi top, that’s what I’ve got! Cheers anyway. 

drofluf

drofluf said:

Tannin said:

One of these days I'm going to say "Bugger it!" and buy a Tone-rite. I mean people like @ToneControl and @thomasross20 are not fools, if they think there is something in it, that's a road I have to go down for myself one day. 

And given that I'm undoubtedly going to go there one day, why not just short-cut history and order one today?

(It is logic like this that drives sensible people like my accountant, my bank manager, and most of all Mrs Tannin completely nuts.)

Found this on eBay <stupidly long link removed, it’s on page 1 of this thread!>

It's probably rubbish but at a tenth the price of a ToneRite may be worth a punt?

The only review online I could find was one where the guy had misunderstood the purpose and thought it was to “break in” the strings. So I ordered one and will report back. 

thermionic

I read somewhere that these are based on a similar mechanism to those found in aquarium pumps and inexpensive espresso machines (a vibratory pump as opposed to a rotary pump). A Tonerite doesn’t really need to much, and I struggle to see why a £15 one wouldn’t do the job. It will be interesting to hear your conclusions.

ToneControl

Chiliwailer said:

ToneControl said:

Chiliwailer said:

The thing that puts me off a Tonerite is this from their webpage ‘ Subsequent treatments will help maintain your new vintage sound!’ - don’t think I can be arsed to keep up with regular ‘treatments’ tbh  

most of mine don't need regular treatments, even when unplayed for a long while.
the only one that really needs it after a few days has an adirondack top, which is very stiff and known to "go to sleep".

Damn, I was nearly convinced until I read about the Adi top, that’s what I’ve got! Cheers anyway. 

lol
I suspect some adi tops don't need it repeating often.
the trouble is you don't always know how played-in a guitar is before you pick it up, since some shops use tonerite, and some don't.

btw if you only play with a plectrum, I would not bother - I'd happily play my adi with a plectrum without waking it up first.
I'd recommend anyone doing an experiment if they play fingerstyle, especially with nails:
Wait until the guitar has not been played for a few weeks, invite a friend round who can play.
You play the guitar fingerstyle for a few minutes in a favourite quiet place.
Then the friend takes it to another room and thrashes it a bit by strumming with a plectrum for 10 minutes.
Then they bring it back and you play the same material again, and see if you notice a difference.

As I say, it's a night and day difference on my adi top. All I do is pop it on the strings, leave for 10 mins to get a cup of tea, then play it, so not much effort for a wonderful outcome

Chiliwailer

ToneControl said:

Chiliwailer said:

ToneControl said:

Chiliwailer said:

The thing that puts me off a Tonerite is this from their webpage ‘ Subsequent treatments will help maintain your new vintage sound!’ - don’t think I can be arsed to keep up with regular ‘treatments’ tbh  

most of mine don't need regular treatments, even when unplayed for a long while.
the only one that really needs it after a few days has an adirondack top, which is very stiff and known to "go to sleep".

Damn, I was nearly convinced until I read about the Adi top, that’s what I’ve got! Cheers anyway. 

lol
I suspect some adi tops don't need it repeating often.
the trouble is you don't always know how played-in a guitar is before you pick it up, since some shops use tonerite, and some don't.

btw if you only play with a plectrum, I would not bother - I'd happily play my adi with a plectrum without waking it up first.
I'd recommend anyone doing an experiment if they play fingerstyle, especially with nails:
Wait until the guitar has not been played for a few weeks, invite a friend round who can play.
You play the guitar fingerstyle for a few minutes in a favourite quiet place.
Then the friend takes it to another room and thrashes it a bit by strumming with a plectrum for 10 minutes.
Then they bring it back and you play the same material again, and see if you notice a difference.

As I say, it's a night and day difference on my adi top. All I do is pop it on the strings, leave for 10 mins to get a cup of tea, then play it, so not much effort for a wonderful outcome

Playing mostly fingers, some plectrum though at times. 

Thanks - I’m definitely intrigued again, so it’s back on mind and in the GAS tank  

drofluf

thermionic said:

I read somewhere that these are based on a similar mechanism to those found in aquarium pumps and inexpensive espresso machines (a vibratory pump as opposed to a rotary pump). A Tonerite doesn’t really need to much, and I struggle to see why a £15 one wouldn’t do the job. It will be interesting to hear your conclusions.

Well it arrived today, only 11 days from China. Won’t have a chance to test it properly for a day or so but I did a quick test, it will vibrate at different speeds/intensities. 

As I don’t think a ToneRite has some magic capability that vibrates at a different rate etc. depending on the guitar I expect it will do as good a job. Whether I’ll notice it is another question…

bugileman

In my opinion its simply years of playing and allowing the top to work hard. It changes the overall tone and allows the guitar to improve in tone. A guitar that's had a life will sound so much better than a guitar that has just sat in a case most it's life.. .

ESBlonde

There is a yootoob video by “silly moustache “ where he explores the concept of opening up an acoustic guitar.
I’m aware of all the theory and for my part I’m in the ‘it opens up with use/vibration’ camp, but won’t try to strenuously impose the concept on anyone. 

Jez6345789

Certainly the wood changes and different resonances and over tones become to the fore and in simple terms usually the bottom end will open up. I think really its a combinaiton of the wood changes due to chemical reactions over time but also the vibrations from the top aligning the woods molecules/fibre whatever in a specific way.

I did buy a Tonerite a few years ago and you can hear a difference I have an Adi topped 000 that seemed to take forever to start to open up its well on its way 5 years down the road but you could hear a difference was it better whats better it seemed to help it develop that dry less zingy tone that comes with Adi. Note it wears strings out fast so dont put fresh strings on before running any form of vibrating device. A lot of people think they are snake oil so your mileage may vary.

I heard an interesting comment from a guy who builds and repairs golden era Martins on a podcast and as he said blindfolded experts had trouble working out the d18's from the 28's on 1930's Martin once the wood gets to a certain point a lot of what you here as difference in younger woods just melds into one tonality old wood.