Need a few bits for a Chibson

rlw

OilCityPickups said:

Danny1969 said:

I was told, but this may be wrong that most humbucker sized P90's don't sound like Gibson P90's. 

You were told wrong. 

Not entirely, in my experience but I’m keen to find some that do.

BillDL

I'm interested to know what controls you went for when you transplanted the toggle switch into the pot hole.  2 x vol, 1 x tone?

Danny1969

@BillDL ;  yes 2 x vol and one tone but the volumes are other way round to normal with bridge volume closest. I use the volume control a lot, more so on the bridge pickup so wanted them this way. 

I moved the toggle switch because I do a lot of tapping / right handed stuff and it gets in the way if in the normal LP position. 

It's a great sounding and playing guitar now and I love the retro look. 

RichAC

Danny1969 said:

@BillDL ;  yes 2 x vol and one tone but the volumes are other way round to normal with bridge volume closest. I use the volume control a lot, more so on the bridge pickup so wanted them this way. 

I moved the toggle switch because I do a lot of tapping / right handed stuff and it gets in the way if in the normal LP position. 

It's a great sounding and playing guitar now and I love the retro look. 

I kind-of feel like you should put a dummy tone control where the switch would be on the upper bout, just to confuse people. 

OilCityPickups

rlw said:

OilCityPickups said:

Danny1969 said:

I was told, but this may be wrong that most humbucker sized P90's don't sound like Gibson P90's. 

You were told wrong. 

Not entirely, in my experience but I’m keen to find some that do.

In the early days of humbucker sized P90s twelve to fifteen years ago I'd totally agree they sounded nothing like 'real' P90s.
There were companies like 'Guitar Fetish' and the like that sold so calle humbucker sized P90s, but essentially these were either a single humbucker sized bobbin wound with 44awg wire to get what looked like the correct DC resistance or an undersized bobbin like this.
This is a lot smaller than a soap bar or dog ear bobbin which looks like this. 


The biggest and most important part of a P90s sound is the wide, flat coil shape, and the 10,000 turns of 42awg wire. None of these early HB P90s used the full load of the right diameter wire - and so even with twin opposed magnets ... which P90s have ... sounded .'off'. 
If you look at a soapbar or P90 bobbin fully wound however you will see that the coil doesn't come out to the very ends of the bobbin by over 1/4 an inch at either end ... and there is just room to chop off the unused bobbin ends - get rid of that empty space ... while keeping a perfectly intact P90 wind. It's not possible in anything other than prototypes - at least for producing in quantity ... but technically you can 'just' chop off the ends of a regular P90 pickup without touching the coil and mount it on a humbucker base. 
Of course this isn't practical ... but laser cutting purpose designed, shortened P90 bobbins that allow for a proper aspect ratio coil of the right wire diameter is!. 

The top flatwork of one of my HB P90 bobbins on top of a conventional P90 bobbin for size comparison


I can't speak for other manufacturers, but that's what I started to do quite a few years ago ... I'm guessing others must be doing it too. 
The next issue I found was the cover. 90% of genuine P90s have plastic covers, which of course allow the totally unhindered magnetic field to pass through. Pretty much all commercially available HB sized P90s had nickel covers, which of course tamed down the natural zing of a P90 in the same way it will a humbucker - so I stopped selling HB P90s in full nickel covers - mine just have 'trim rings' now which leave the tops of the pickups totally open. As below.

Many folks don't like the open top look ... but I've always been about tone over looks.
I'm pretty convinced there are other makers as dedicated to getting this one right ... and who have gone down a similar route.

I'm a huge P90 fan and if I couldn't make HB P90s that sounded 'right' I simply wouldn't make them, as they are a very small part of what I sell.  

guitargeek62

OilCityPickups said:

rlw said:

OilCityPickups said:

Danny1969 said:

I was told, but this may be wrong that most humbucker sized P90's don't sound like Gibson P90's. 

You were told wrong. 

Not entirely, in my experience but I’m keen to find some that do.

In the early days of humbucker sized P90s twelve to fifteen years ago I'd totally agree they sounded nothing like 'real' P90s.
There were companies like 'Guitar Fetish' and the like that sold so calle humbucker sized P90s, but essentially these were either a single humbucker sized bobbin wound with 44awg wire to get what looked like the correct DC resistance or an undersized bobbin like this.
This is a lot smaller than a soap bar or dog ear bobbin which looks like this. 


The biggest and most important part of a P90s sound is the wide, flat coil shape, and the 10,000 turns of 42awg wire. None of these early HB P90s used the full load of the right diameter wire - and so even with twin opposed magnets ... which P90s have ... sounded .'off'. 
If you look at a soapbar or P90 bobbin fully wound however you will see that the coil doesn't come out to the very ends of the bobbin by over 1/4 an inch at either end ... and there is just room to chop off the unused bobbin ends - get rid of that empty space ... while keeping a perfectly intact P90 wind. It's not possible in anything other than prototypes - at least for producing in quantity ... but technically you can 'just' chop off the ends of a regular P90 pickup without touching the coil and mount it on a humbucker base. 
Of course this isn't practical ... but laser cutting purpose designed, shortened P90 bobbins that allow for a proper aspect ratio coil of the right wire diameter is!. 

The top flatwork of one of my HB P90 bobbins on top of a conventional P90 bobbin for size comparison


I can't speak for other manufacturers, but that's what I started to do quite a few years ago ... I'm guessing others must be doing it too. 
The next issue I found was the cover. 90% of genuine P90s have plastic covers, which of course allow the totally unhindered magnetic field to pass through. Pretty much all commercially available HB sized P90s had nickel covers, which of course tamed down the natural zing of a P90 in the same way it will a humbucker - so I stopped selling HB P90s in full nickel covers - mine just have 'trim rings' now which leave the tops of the pickups totally open. As below.

Many folks don't like the open top look ... but I've always been about tone over looks.
I'm pretty convinced there are other makers as dedicated to getting this one right ... and who have gone down a similar route.

I'm a huge P90 fan and if I couldn't make HB P90s that sounded 'right' I simply wouldn't make them, as they are a very small part of what I sell.  

Neat concept and explanation, thanks. I’m even more inclined to try a set of these now!

TheMarlin

I’ve had Oil City HB sized P90’s in the past, and have another set about to drop into a new guitar. 

They’re excellent. Huge P90 sound. 

Full stop, end of story!