Replacement kitchen traps - what to watch out for?

sev112

Mrs sev112 now has more than her eyes on a new kitchen, new units, maybe not new white goods, but retailing walls as well, decoration etc, bit of re plumbing and some lighting.
we are in a 20 year old standard ish house.
Those that have been through this, what problems or difficulties should I look out for and be aware of L

robgilmo

sev112 said:

Mrs sev112 now has more than her eyes on a new kitchen, new units, maybe not new white goods, but retailing walls as well, decoration etc, bit of re plumbing and some lighting.
we are in a 20 year old standard ish house.
Those that have been through this, what problems or difficulties should I look out for and be aware of L

Do the plumbing first, bring copper and waste to appliances for an easy life, trap wise keep it simple, dont be afraid to use glue fittings on anything that isnt supposed to move and install it all so its not actually a bugger to get to or a bugger to get to anything else. Make it so that if it does go wrong it wont be somewhere you dont have access to, no push fit behind cupboards etc.

stickyfiddle

The biggest difficulties with ours were, in the order they became issues:

- flatness of tiled floor - our guys out too much fall in to the point it was very visible and felt weird to walk on
- squareness of walls, ie our walls aren’t perfectly parallel and perpendicular l, meaning it was impossible to get the counter & cabinets perfectly lined up with the floor tiles
- evenness of subway tiles on wall (made worse by under counter lights - it looks perfect when they’re switched off!). 

None of it is insurmountable provided you don’t expect literal 100% perfection. But did require a bit of quick thinking and plenty of patience getting everything sorted/appropriately compromised 

Iamnobody

Don’t go to Wren unless you’re prepared to put up with their bullshit, dated, doubleglazesque sales routine. I don’t believe their product is particularly sub standard, and the eventual price is there or thereabouts - but the game to get there is ridiculous. 

If you or anyone use Wren I suggest you say to them let’s not play the game, just tell me the actual price without the back and forth to your manager and the extra discount if you sign today bollocks. I’ll have a think and call you if it’s the competitive quote we are looking for.

In the end we went with a local supplier as he was easy to deal with and we seemed to have more influence on the final design - he listened to what we wanted. 

swiller

Howdens for parts, via a good local fitter for install. Howdens great for replacing stuff that wont fit, or missing stuff which will happen. Fitter should have used howdens regularly.

stickyfiddle

Agreed on getting electrical and water brought as close to appliances as possible and making sure everything is serviceable later. You will have a leak/dodgy connection/escaped kitten back there at some point so plan for it now. 

And while you’re doing electricals, get more sockets than you think you need, and get sockets with USB outlets on them if you can. We got dual USB-A/C ones and they’re really handy  

Sporky

swiller said:

Howdens for parts, via a good local fitter for install. Howdens great for replacing stuff that wont fit, or missing stuff which will happen. Fitter should have used howdens regularly.

We used Coomers. Very similar to Howden, but we preferred their shade of blue, and our architect's husband worked there and gave us staff discount. Our builder was a big fan of Howden for the reasons you mentioned, though their pricing may not be entirely transparent. 

Had one from County Kitchens in Surrey before that was perfectly decent (fitters a but slack though), and (shudder) Moben before that, who were completely shit.

The Coomers is definitely better quality than those two. 

My office is done with DIY Kitchens cabinets and doors, and those seem very decent too - well worth a look. 

TTony

Don't forget that you'll need somewhere to keep all the stuff that's currently in those cupboards, and somewhere to cook stuff and wash stuff, during the 3* weeks that the fitters take to remove the old and install the new.



*Yes, I know they quoted 1 week, but don't believe that.


FWIW, I've had very good experience of Howdens too.  They supplied (and I fitted) cupboards in our utility room and annexe kitchen.  Quality of the units was just as good as the more retail-focused (and expensive) usual names.

boogieman

Another plus one for Howdens, although their pricing system is a bit odd. Some of the diy sheds might be cheaper but when you discover that the units come from Italy and there’s a six week wait for missing or broken parts you’ll bless the day you bought from Howdens where you can get all the spare bits over the counter. They won’t sell direct to the public, so either the builder/fitter will need to buy it or you need to get creative with some legitimate looking “company paperwork”. Ahem. 

Make sure you get a decent fitter whoever you buy from, it makes a world of difference to the finished job. I’ll have a go at most diy jobs but a kitchen is not something I’d attempt myself unless you’re very competent at carpentry and have a comprehensive toolkit. 

If you’re having new electrics installed, be aware that you might need the consumer unit upgraded if it isn’t up to the latest regs and budget for the possible extra work. It might well be worth having it done anyway while the sparks is onsite, but it obviously depends on what’s already there. The guy that did our kitchen two years back only charged us £300 extra for a complete CU upgrade (including all the RCBOs, labour, test and certification), so it needn’t be a huge expense. (Depends on the sparky obviously). 

Get used to take aways or lots of microwave meals. Having no kitchen is a complete PITA. 

ToneControl

Is Howdens the one with the weird pricing where they quote double or triple for everything, then you get discounts based on who your fitter is?

ToneControl

I've bought IKEA stuff for years, very solid stuff.
Especially good if you want to do some of the installation yourself, or for tweaks later on.

If you want to get someone in to do everything, many rate Howdens

I'd avoid getting a custom made kitchen made from Oak or whatever, like my friends did. It looks nice, but for a tiny kitchen with just 3 cupboards it cost more than double what 2 or 3 times as many units cost me using IKEA.

Don't anyone ever be tempted to use  cupboard door paint, like I was. It's "designed for the purpose", but looks crap after a year.

ToneControl

Get the electrics planned and installed early too. Lots of new double sockets, USB chargers.

Lighting is critical, ideally lots of 550+ lumen GU10s, possibly on 2 or 3 separate circuits? Even with dimmers if you like that idea, but be aware LED lights have varying compatibility, and there is more than method for dimmers (e.g. trailing edge, leading edge)

boogieman

ToneControl said:

Is Howdens the one with the weird pricing where they quote double or triple for everything, then you get discounts based on who your fitter is?

Yes. I think the way it works is the more times they buy, the bigger the discount. The last builder we used got 75% off! 

Someone has already mentioned them but if you’re planning to do everything yourself then diy-kitchens.com are worth a look for units and get very good reviews. 

ToneControl

btw I recently installed an old IKEA wardrobe that had some missing parts.
I know that IKEA has some spare parts near the entrance to help people.

Anyway, it's 40 minute drive, so I went online to check what parts I needed, and found you could just click and ask for them, and they get delivered for free, without even a postage charge!

Sporky

boogieman said:

ToneControl said:

Is Howdens the one with the weird pricing where they quote double or triple for everything, then you get discounts based on who your fitter is?

Yes. I think the way it works is the more times they buy, the bigger the discount. The last builder we used got 75% off! 

I have heard that they also give the fitter more than one receipt, with different discount levels on each. One might say that's for useful comparison, others might say it lets the fitter use whichever they like for invoicing. 

spark240

As someone mentioned....go a little OTT with sockets and outlets, makes sure all of the water valves are accessible for the future, avoid wine coolers, we had a stainless double sink affair, not great...avoid really dark worktops...the dust and marks show all the time.

If you are having new flooring...consider Electric UFH....you will not regret it !

Also allow for a small 2kw elec.plinth heater...perfect for those chilly early mornings.   

Sporky

I am very fond of the boiling water tap and water softener we included in ours.

And wet underfloor heating.

Iamnobody

spark240 said:

As someone mentioned....go a little OTT with sockets and outlets, makes sure all of the water valves are accessible for the future, avoid wine coolers, we had a stainless double sink affair, not great...avoid really dark worktops...the dust and marks show all the time.

If you are having new flooring...consider Electric UFH....you will not regret it !

Also allow for a small 2kw elec.plinth heater...perfect for those chilly early mornings.   

I’ve not seen those plinth heaters before. They look great. We didn’t go for underfloor heating in our kitchen and we don’t tend to have the heating on very long/high even in the winter, it’s our coldest room and you do feel it on the tiles - so one might be nice for a quick early morning blast as you say. I’m intending to fit leds in the plinth at some point so could incorporate one of those as well. 

boogieman

Sporky said:

I am very fond of the boiling water tap and water softener we included in ours.

Wis. Water softeners are great if you live in a hard water area. We inherited a quite bulky unit when we moved here that sits in the garage, but friends have recently had a much more compact unit installed under their sink. We use a tiny fraction of the washing liquid, detergent, soap and shampoo than we used to, plus nothing scales up or gets covered in water marks like before.  

horse

I'd avoid high gloss wrap on doors as it looks bad when it starts to fail

Headphones

Sporky said:

I am very fond of the boiling water tap and water softener we included in ours.

And wet underfloor heating.

The boiling water taps appear to be pretty unreliable in these parts.

The ones in the many office kitchens I see appear to have a very high failure rate.  The simple wall hung boilers that preceded them had their issues, but nothing compared to the zip taps and qookers.

Even the call out to fix costs more than a couple of kettles!