Admins, what is happening to tFB?

digitalscream

Emp_Fab said:

If you want to become a 'member' and pay, that's your choice.  Likewise if you choose not to.  However, I don't think pushing membership as a means to stop inappropriate ads is quite the decent thing.  The ads shouldn't be inappropriate regardless.  It has the slightest whiff of "If you don't pay, you're going to get scantily clad women, potentially NSFW, on your screen."

That's morally debatable in my book.

It's a bit difficult not to take this personally, given that you know it's absolute bollocks.

@Tannin - you can do it annually with PayPal if you want, it's just a manual process.

EDIT: Also, if you want to change the ads you see, you can always delete your cookies for this site specifically. Most browsers allow you to do this. In Chrome, for example, you click the padlock next to the web address and then "Cookies and site data", then delete the Google ones.

Emp_Fab

Calm down - why the aggressive tone ?  There's no need for that! 

Your wrong about the ads being based on your browsing history.  I keep seeing lingerie ads and I've never browsed for anything remotely like that*.  Secondly, of course the Fretboard has control over what appears on its site!  There are a great many advert service suppliers on the web, if the one being used at present is pushing ads showing semi naked women then a different supplier can be used.  Are you suggesting that, say, a kids colouring website would just have to put up with half-naked women on it because "it's completely out of their hands" ?  That's patently ludicrous. 

The rest of your points are moot because they suggest the onus is on the viewer rather than the broadcaster to control what the broadcaster shows. 

*Adult entertainment is taken with a different account on a different machine before you snort in disbelief.

Sporky

Emp_Fab said:

Calm down - why the aggressive tone ?  There's no need for that! 

To be fair, you did say the current advertising system is "morally debatable", and strongly suggested that it's intended to coerce members into paying to get rid of them.

Reap what you sow etc. 

WezV

Emp_Fab said:

*Adult entertainment is taken with a different account on a different machine before you snort in disbelief.

Do you have a VPN on your dedicated porn machine?    If not, it will still be the same IP address as your definitely not porn devices.

Even without your masturbatory habits being tracked, your demographic info gleamed from everything else would likely lead to you seeing some things similar people may be interested in. Feel free to blame all the dirty old men who are like you in every other way 

I wish they would bring back the good old days where they could happily plaster these sorts of ads on billboards everywhere, without a thought for those delicate children's eyes!   I remember being quite interested by such things at a  young age  

digitalscream

Emp_Fab said:

Calm down - why the aggressive tone ?  There's no need for that! 

When you start questioning my morals, it's pretty damn difficult to avoid taking it personally. Not only that, but the rest of your post suggests that I'm either being dishonest or incompetent. If you don't want aggressive responses, don't get personal.

Emp_Fab said:

Your wrong about the ads being based on your browsing history.  I keep seeing lingerie ads and I've never browsed for anything remotely like that*.  Secondly, of course the Fretboard has control over what appears on its site!  There are a great many advert service suppliers on the web, if the one being used at present is pushing ads showing semi naked women then a different supplier can be used.  Are you suggesting that, say, a kids colouring website would just have to put up with half-naked women on it because "it's completely out of their hands" ?  That's patently ludicrous. 

I'm not wrong about it being based on your browsing history; your browsing history puts you into what can loosely be called "a demographic" (it's not, really, but that's close enough), and the advertisers target those demographics with specific ads. That is absolutely how it works, and how it always has. If you don't believe me, do what I said above - delete the Google cookies for this site, and refresh the page. The ads you see will change significantly - you'll most likely start to see guitar-based ads. It's also based on the ads you ignore - so the more you ignore immediately-relevant ads, the less they will be shown and the more likely it is that you're going to see ads that are targeted at the generic-past-middle-aged-bloke.

Yes, there are a great many ad suppliers on the web, most of whom require you to plaster ads all over your site in order to get a return of more than £20/month, and will close your account if you don't. Others will require you to run all your traffic through their servers (which presents a massive privacy risk - they would immediately have access to PMs, and thus any bank details exchanged there for example), and others still give you absolutely nowhere near as much control over the ads displayed as AdSense does. And, of course, most of those ad providers won't actually accept forums as clients in the first place because they don't trust user-generated content.

I've tried the best of the available alternatives before - Monumetric and Ezoic - and both resulted in two things: massively reduced revenue to the point that the site's continued existence was put at risk, and also massively reduced performance. Not to mention a lack of control over the ads, and constant insistence from them that I make at least 5 ads visible on the screen at any time.

I have never said that it's completely out of my hands. Not once. All of the NSFW and gambling ads are blacklisted, for example, but there are a limited number of categories that can be blacklisted. Would you rather that porn sites were allowed in order to get rid of Temu ads? Or how about gambling, or Viagra ads?

There are ways to get even more control over the ads displayed, yes. Every single one of them requires site traffic an order of magnitude higher than we have - think "50 million hits a month" - before being granted accounts with those services. TheGearPage and Mumsnet might be able to do that, we can't.

The point is that there are a great many more variables than your simplistic summary would suggest. To do what you're insisting is easy would compromise the site to the point where it would be unusable, in one way or another, or simply cease to exist.

EDIT: Just one more thing...

Emp_Fab said:

The rest of your points are moot because they suggest the onus is on the viewer rather than the broadcaster to control what the broadcaster shows. 

You know full damn well that websites are in no way related to "broadcasters", either legally or practically. What's the primary difference in this case? Oh yes, broadcasters have a direct relationship with the advertisers.

west

RocknRollDave said:

thecolourbox said:

Well the adverts showing on my page currently are for The Bear Tavern (a pub in a shit hole called Bearwood just outside Birmingham) and Tackling Climate Change, neither of which I have browsed for anything like recently as far as I can tell. I've also had the Temu ones, I suspected that my briefing history suggested I'd be interested in Temu as a whole, and not the random magpie style collection of tat shown in the flashing images

I live in Bearwood  ;(

I saw Tal farlow at the 'shithole bear '  ! plus many more jazz artists ...

fretmeister

Tannin said:

Nonsense, @Emp_Fab. The ads you and I and everybody else gets are not, repeat NOT distributed by or decided upon by The Fretboard. The particular ads you see are chosen by the advertising agency (presumably Google, or some other bastards of similar ilk) and completely beyond The Fretboard's control. If you don't like them, you can:

a: change your browsing and searching habits - you only see stuff if you look at stuff
b: use a decent web browser that does not show bloody ads
c: install an ad blocker on your existing not-so-good web browser
d: learn not to see ads - it's just a simple mental trick, anyone can do it.
e: give a small amount of money to The Fretboard
f: stop visiting The Fretboard (and pretty much everywhere else on the interweb)

I use (a), (b) and (d) and will go to (e) as soon as bloody Patreon stops insisting on taking piddly little amounts once a month (which makes your bank statements and accounts a pain in the arse) instead of a nice simple once a year sum. 

Could add: An underwear advert is not porn. Grow up.

topdog91

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/49019/thefretboard-rules-v2-0

WYNIR0

Rule 1 would seem to apply very much in this current diversion.

thecolourbox

RocknRollDave said:

thecolourbox said:

Well the adverts showing on my page currently are for The Bear Tavern (a pub in a shit hole called Bearwood just outside Birmingham) and Tackling Climate Change, neither of which I have browsed for anything like recently as far as I can tell. I've also had the Temu ones, I suspected that my briefing history suggested I'd be interested in Temu as a whole, and not the random magpie style collection of tat shown in the flashing images

I live in Bearwood  ;(

Sorry, as in I'm sorry for saying that, I must have been in one of those "hate everything and everyone" days.

S56035

fretmeister said:

Tannin said:

Nonsense, @Emp_Fab. The ads you and I and everybody else gets are not, repeat NOT distributed by or decided upon by The Fretboard. The particular ads you see are chosen by the advertising agency (presumably Google, or some other bastards of similar ilk) and completely beyond The Fretboard's control. If you don't like them, you can:

a: change your browsing and searching habits - you only see stuff if you look at stuff
b: use a decent web browser that does not show bloody ads
c: install an ad blocker on your existing not-so-good web browser
d: learn not to see ads - it's just a simple mental trick, anyone can do it.
e: give a small amount of money to The Fretboard
f: stop visiting The Fretboard (and pretty much everywhere else on the interweb)

I use (a), (b) and (d) and will go to (e) as soon as bloody Patreon stops insisting on taking piddly little amounts once a month (which makes your bank statements and accounts a pain in the arse) instead of a nice simple once a year sum. 

Could add: An underwear advert is not porn. Grow up.

Exactly this. I currently have some ladies in underwear showing at the bottom of my screen. I do not think anyone who sees it thinks I'm knocking one out while in the office.

I did get a Temu advert that looked superbly inappropriate in a sextoy way but when I showed it to someone they said it a float for fishing

prowla

I don't go for the "what have you been looking at?" accusation.

Some things can result from stupid search engines or social media sites "AI" inferring the wrong things from your searches.

Recent examples in my case include:

• Searching for Leatherman multi tools (got men in leather!).
• Searching for a Logitech Harmony Ultimate remote control (got very scantily clad women).
• Spam postings in FB groups (all sorts of things can appear).
• I'm not sure what search prompted it (I may have looked at some of my kids schools?), but there was a phase where some sites "we though you'd be interested in this" kept suggesting sites of kiddies.

Whilst it's fun to snigger at folks, there can be inappropriate content returned for no apparent reason.

Of course, work-wise many companies have a stipulation against using their equipment for personal reasons.

swiller

Emp_Fab said:

Calm down - why the aggressive tone ?  There's no need for that! 

Your wrong about the ads being based on your browsing history.  I keep seeing lingerie ads and I've never browsed for anything remotely like that*. 

*Adult entertainment is taken with a different account on a different machine before you snort in disbelief.

It may be being picked up by a device camera, so whilst not surfing for lingerie, google can still pick up if you are wearing it via image recognition. Put something over the camera of the device, a bit of blu tac or maybe a suspender belt button. 

Sporky

Or some scotch tape, but then you'll get adverts for cataract surgery. 

RocknRollDave

thecolourbox said:

RocknRollDave said:

thecolourbox said:

Well the adverts showing on my page currently are for The Bear Tavern (a pub in a shit hole called Bearwood just outside Birmingham) and Tackling Climate Change, neither of which I have browsed for anything like recently as far as I can tell. I've also had the Temu ones, I suspected that my briefing history suggested I'd be interested in Temu as a whole, and not the random magpie style collection of tat shown in the flashing images

I live in Bearwood  ;(

Sorry, as in I'm sorry for saying that, I must have been in one of those "hate everything and everyone" days.

No apology needed! 

You’ll note I didn’t actually dispute your description…

Philly_Q

S56035 said:

I did get a Temu advert that looked superbly inappropriate in a sextoy way but when I showed it to someone they said it a float for fishing

Yeah, I don't know if it's Temu but I definitely get some "what the fuck is that?" dubious-looking ads.  Of course, sometimes, I then click to find out what it actually is, which only makes things worse.

Emp_Fab

Apologies if I've offended anyone.  Perhaps this is a subject I should back the fuck away from and retract everything I said.  No offence intended, especially to you @digitalscream.

Tannin

^ Well done Emp.

digitalscream

Emp_Fab said:

Apologies if I've offended anyone.  Perhaps this is a subject I should back the fuck away from and retract everything I said.  No offence intended, especially to you @digitalscream.

It's not just you - you're certainly not the first to say things like that, and I'd bet that you won't be the last.

Here's the problem: I'd like to think that I've built up a certain amount of trust and goodwill on here, in that I've never done anything underhanded or harmful to this community. I'd hoped that would imply that in the case of the ads, you'd all believe me when I say that I've put a shit-ton of work into getting it working in the best, least-invasive and fairest way that it can possibly work, rather than just slapping a bunch of ads on here without a second thought as to the consequences and walking away with wads of cash at everybody else's expense.

At the very least, even if that trust isn't 100%, I'd hope that folk would get that I've put enough work into it that they're probably not going to be able to spend 5 minutes on Googling "how do I put ads on a website" and assume that they've got a better handle on how it works, both technically and commercially, than I have.

And, if that all fails, you should be able to trust that - being a creature with as much self-interest as anyone - I've invested so much damn time into this place that I don't particularly want it to fail

On a more specific note, I honestly thought that knew a bit more about the mechanics of ad serving than most folk. This is genuinely not an insult, but from what you've posted here...I don't think you do/did (and there's genuinely no shame in that, it's a shit subject that's full of dark crevices that nobody should ever have to try to navigate). That's a poor assumption on my part right there, and (obviously) a big part of my irritable, caffeine-less responses this morning. So...yeah, sorry about that.

Emp_Fab

Me?  Ad-serving?  I don't know where you got that from but I know as much about that as I do breeding giraffes!

My sphere of IT work has never gone near websites or stuff like that.  Which is why, now I'm 60, it makes me perfectly qualified to moan about 

Tomorrow, I'm going to NASA to tell them what they're doing all wrong....