Guitar selling market

strtdv

I picked up a custom shop Tele (a '59 relic) for £2600 last month (from a second hand dealer), which seemed relatively cheap for it but it seems to be the going rate at the moment. 

Our mortgage has gone up about £400 a month and I'm sure a lot of other people are in the same position. Add to that the fact that your weekly shop is probably 20% more expensive than it was a couple of years ago, cars are more expensive (and the interest rates on the finance higher), energy prices remain high, and your council tax/rates bill has just gone up, and I think a lot of people don't have the spare cash to spend on non-essential things like guitars. 

Irrespective of mortgages, housing costs are huge at the moment. Despite the wider economy performing poorly and interest rates rising, most places outside London and the South East are still experiencing house price rises. Rent is very expensive, there is still a huge shortage of housing stock, and it's very expensive to build at the moment. We completed a major renovation/extension last year and it was the wrong side of £300k by the time kitchens/bathrooms/flooring etc was all done, and that's Northern Ireland prices which are generally lower than England (though Brexit added some cost, tariffs on British steel were so high it was cheaper to import from south of Ireland even with the weak pound).

Basically if it hasn't sold it's too expensive for the current market and you need to decide if you're willing to sell at a lower price or wait for the market to improve (which I imagine won't happen in the next 18 months)

OilCityPickups

guitars4you said:

fretfinder said:

pt22 said:

Andertons has CS Strats now back under the £4k mark, and second hand under £3k. That’s not happened in a while I think. 

Just had a look and the only one under £3k is a Custom Deluxe and they always go for lower money. The two used CS Relics they’ve got are £3.5k and over £4k!

That purple Tele at £3550 is putrid 

That is all kinds of foul! £3550 .... and a free vomit bag? 

Strat54

I think you are all making it out to be worse than it is....I mean Jordan Guitars seem to post three or four new guitars everyday.....and his house can't be that big. 

LPManic

CS guitars are too expensive now - in particular first hand but especially second hand. People are wanting over £3k for the most basic CS guitar and it's just ridiculous. But of course this is because of the rising first hand prices.

In terms of guitar forums and GAS maniacs like ourselves, I would have thought that in fact trading or swapping guitars would be more of a thing. Maybe it will become a thing because guitar flipping or making a quick profit (or any profit) is incredibly difficult right now.

(I bought a CS Les Paul Junior for €2500 in July 2021! Why did I sell it? (For the same price in December 2021!) Argh!)

Nerine

Strat54 said:

I think you are all making it out to be worse than it is....I mean Jordan Guitars seem to post three or four new guitars everyday.....and his house can't be that big. 

I’ve been there. It’s a nice house. Think he basically runs it out of his home office. Didn’t like any of the stock I tried though. 

TheMarlin

A guitar is worth what someone is willing to pay. 

In good times, they will pay more, in bad times, they will pay less. 

If you want to sell something quickly, it needs to be priced more attractively, particularly in bad times. 

Right now, it’s not a good time. 

notsopro

LPManic said:

CS guitars are too expensive now - in particular first hand but especially second hand. People are wanting over £3k for the most basic CS guitar and it's just ridiculous. But of course this is because of the rising first hand prices.

In terms of guitar forums and GAS maniacs like ourselves, I would have thought that in fact trading or swapping guitars would be more of a thing. Maybe it will become a thing because guitar flipping or making a quick profit (or any profit) is incredibly difficult right now.

(I bought a CS Les Paul Junior for €2500 in July 2021! Why did I sell it? (For the same price in December 2021!) Argh!)

Whilst I can't agree 100% as I don't believe in the term 'too expensive' as any business has the right to price things how they see fit, we can all moan about it, but if fender or gibson want to put all their custom shop stuff at 10k, good luck to them don't think they'll sell much, but if it turns their business into a loss, that's their issue.

But that little caveat aside I think the price of the new prices rising and the used prices getting close to that is a major issue. If we take a look at the price increase of a Les Paul standard for example, a couple of years ago (numbers may not be right but the principle hopefully will be) you would be looking at say £2,000 for a new standard. Used people asking say £1600 or so. Even at that point there would have been a large chunk of folk saying '2k, that' a bit much for that', fast forward the 2 years, that standard is now £2500 on average with a used one pushing up towards the £2000 mark. So the same people who were unsure about a new one at that price are never going to see a used one as anywhere near good value. I don't blame the people selling their used gear at a % of the new price (as I'm sure I'm guilty of it too), but as has been previously stated, it's supply and demand, and I'm a big believer in something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Lastly I'm really fortunate; whilst I appreciate the price rises and cost of living crises, I was extremely lucky to fix my mortgage at a low rate for multiple years, and due to running a business that has taken off over the past few years I'm still lucky enough to be able to treat myself to some nice gear and I think the way I look at buying gear new / used represents why a lot of stuff isn't selling as much. Let's take for example the Les Paul, the majority of people who are cutting back, or adjusting to the world we live in now, will not be looking to spend 2k (which even me as a les paul fan, doesn't think represents really good value) on a used guitar. Then the people who can afford these guitars and have the disposable to buy them may think "well hold on, I can get this used les paul off a bedroom dealer / facebook marketplace etc, unseen for £1900 or so, or for £2200 I can go to all the shops in the area (obviously if you're near enough), play multiple les pauls, choose my fav one, or my fav top for around 20% more and have risk free returns, guarantee etc". I think a lot of the buyers will choose the later. So the prices as they are at the moment in my view are almost alienating both sides of the market.

Schnozz

I've sold a strat, archtop, drum kit and some amps. There is a lot of trade offers and the occasional low ball.

I never buy to sell, so I just enjoy playing everything while I wait for it to sell (if I need to sell it).

I remember trading stuff for Fender in the past because I thought it would sell quicker, but I just ended up in limbo with something I didn't want to play. Just be patient with the nicer niche stuff.

strtdv

I think of a 20% difference from new to used as simple being the VAT that is paid on the new guitar, I'd expect a bigger discount on used gear to consider it good value. 

I don't see value in a £4k+ for a "normal" custom shop Fender, but they're a much better buy used. 

The other side is that stuff that's "fairly" priced in my opinion seems to be sitting for a long time. There's an American Elite Telecaster for sale fairly near me that's been for sale at £1150, has sat for months even reduced to £1000. Seems a bargain for a 7 year old equivalent to the American Ultra series which is £1900-2100 new

Pete.R

It all depends on the price....

If an item is overpriced, it will stay forever....

if the price is 'right', it sells within a few hours

the time to make some profit with buying and selling used gear seems mostly over.

Meanwhile you need to buy very low, to earn some coins

or you need to wait long enough and scan the market to offer when no other is on the market

that's my experiences

kelpbeds

I'm finding it hard to shift the odd guitar I have for sale. Had a Classic Player Strat for sale for ages and it just won't shift. Reduced it to £530 on here, ebay and reverb. 
Three people said they would buy it and all backed out with varying excuses.
Annoyingly an identical one sold on Ebay recently for £650! Perhaps I listed it too cheap!
Very frustrating.
And I've just had a quick look on Ebay, there's none around that price point they are all quite a bit more.

hassleham

kelpbeds said:

I'm finding it hard to shift the odd guitar I have for sale. Had a Classic Player Strat for sale for ages and it just won't shift. Reduced it to £530 on here, ebay and reverb. 
Three people said they would buy it and all backed out with varying excuses.
Annoyingly an identical one sold on Ebay recently for £650! Perhaps I listed it too cheap!
Very frustrating.
And I've just had a quick look on Ebay, there's none around that price point they are all quite a bit more.

I tried to sell a TV on facebook a few years ago.. Listed for £150 and got hounded with offers of £100.. I changed the listing price to £180 as an experiment and within 2 hours had an offer of £150 and they collected and paid the same day! 

Snags

maw4neu said:

topdog91 said:

Most of the time the reality is that if something sticks around too long, the price is too high. (And / or it's very niche and demand is low.)

Pretty much spot on ! !  . . .   coupled with the fact that people in general, not just guitar players, have much less spare cash to spend these days . . . Everything has gone up ! 

In the wider market place, probably, although not always. 

On here, I don't think it's true at all. Mostly because a significant proporption of gear I've sold has been sold via other mediums at a higher price than advertised on here. So I suppose you could caveat it with "The price was too high for the specific marketplace (tFB), even though it was lower than the actual eventual sale price" but that merely demonstrates that tFB isn't your average marketplace.

chris78

People still want covid prices for their gear. The market has adjusted to normal, prices haven't.
Brexit has meant new prices are way higher.
Be prepared to take a 40-50% haircut on a new guitar if you move it on. Thats what it used to be. 

notsopro

chris78 said:

People still want covid prices for their gear. The market has adjusted to normal, prices haven't.
Brexit has meant new prices are way higher.
Be prepared to take a 40-50% haircut on a new guitar if you move it on. Thats what it used to be. 

for the sake of balance, new guitar prices have risen by the same % (within reason) across Europe, USA etc, Brexit is not responsible for the price increases. whilst we don't want to de-rail the topic, we also don't want to talk nonsense. 

there could be a conversation to be had with the cost of used guitars being impacted by Brexit if you're looking to sell / buy, as these will now incur some form of import fee's + vat, but in relation to new prices, the average cost of a new guitar is relative in every country. Yes the prices have gone up, along with everything else. 

OilCityPickups

To be honest I think the country is holding it's breath and not really committing to anything financially till we know when there is gong to be a general election.  Then we can have a proper government and get on with life again. 
Yep that's political ... ask me if I give a f**k?

chris78

notsopro said:

chris78 said:

People still want covid prices for their gear. The market has adjusted to normal, prices haven't.
Brexit has meant new prices are way higher.
Be prepared to take a 40-50% haircut on a new guitar if you move it on. Thats what it used to be. 

for the sake of balance, new guitar prices have risen by the same % (within reason) across Europe, USA etc, Brexit is not responsible for the price increases. whilst we don't want to de-rail the topic, we also don't want to talk nonsense. 

there could be a conversation to be had with the cost of used guitars being impacted by Brexit if you're looking to sell / buy, as these will now incur some form of import fee's + vat, but in relation to new prices, the average cost of a new guitar is relative in every country. Yes the prices have gone up, along with everything else. 

I’ve literally been at a well known dealer today discussing the impact of brexit on guitar prices.
Import taxes.
Devaluation of the pound.
Increased admin for the dealer resulting in reduced stock.
Slower to get stock due to additional bureaucracy.

Yeah, let’s not talk nonsense and pretend it’s not had a significant impact.

OilCityPickups

chris78 said:

notsopro said:

chris78 said:

People still want covid prices for their gear. The market has adjusted to normal, prices haven't.
Brexit has meant new prices are way higher.
Be prepared to take a 40-50% haircut on a new guitar if you move it on. Thats what it used to be. 

for the sake of balance, new guitar prices have risen by the same % (within reason) across Europe, USA etc, Brexit is not responsible for the price increases. whilst we don't want to de-rail the topic, we also don't want to talk nonsense. 

there could be a conversation to be had with the cost of used guitars being impacted by Brexit if you're looking to sell / buy, as these will now incur some form of import fee's + vat, but in relation to new prices, the average cost of a new guitar is relative in every country. Yes the prices have gone up, along with everything else. 

I’ve literally been at a well known dealer today discussing the impact of brexit on guitar prices.
Import taxes.
Devaluation of the pound.
Increased admin for the dealer resulting in reduced stock.
Slower to get stock due to additional bureaucracy.

Yeah, let’s not talk nonsense and pretend it’s not had a significant impact.

Well lets see ... Before brexit I had a healthy rosta of european customers, my pickups selling well in Germany, the Nordic countries spain and France ... now ... tumbleweeds blowing through. Abound 20% of my trade f**ked by 'little Britain' small minded Gammons. Thanks a bunch. Enjoy your pints of wine ...  

notsopro

chris78 said:

notsopro said:

chris78 said:

People still want covid prices for their gear. The market has adjusted to normal, prices haven't.
Brexit has meant new prices are way higher.
Be prepared to take a 40-50% haircut on a new guitar if you move it on. Thats what it used to be. 

for the sake of balance, new guitar prices have risen by the same % (within reason) across Europe, USA etc, Brexit is not responsible for the price increases. whilst we don't want to de-rail the topic, we also don't want to talk nonsense. 

there could be a conversation to be had with the cost of used guitars being impacted by Brexit if you're looking to sell / buy, as these will now incur some form of import fee's + vat, but in relation to new prices, the average cost of a new guitar is relative in every country. Yes the prices have gone up, along with everything else. 

I’ve literally been at a well known dealer today discussing the impact of brexit on guitar prices.
Import taxes.
Devaluation of the pound.
Increased admin for the dealer resulting in reduced stock.
Slower to get stock due to additional bureaucracy.

Yeah, let’s not talk nonsense and pretend it’s not had a significant impact.

has brexit had a significant impact in general, quite possibly yes. Has it had a significant impact on the retail price of a brand new guitar. I'm afraid not. Lets look at the 3 of the largest manufacturers, in the world. Fender, Gibson, PRS. The price of a standard strat, a standard les paul, and a standard core. The prices are essentially the same in US retailers as they are over here. So are you suggesting those companies said 'that brexit situation over in the EU has his us hard, we're going to have to raise our prices'? Or we could take an average Ibanez at eu retailers and compare them to some over here, the prices are almost identical... so what impact have we the consumer seen on brand new guitars?

All the other points taxes, devaluation of the pound, admin all that may be the case, but it hasn't affected the price we are paying compared to the rest of the world for new guitars, so how can you possibly argue it's caused the prices to rise?

The prices of new stuff has gone up yes, but there's a lot of other stuff that is responsible rather than Brexit. So my comment stands, if you think Brexit has caused the price of new guitars to go up when the price has gone up all over the world, including in markets where the guitars are made, i think that is nonsense.

*edit* - hadn't seen oilcitys post.

whilst all that may be true, my point wasn't on the impact brexit has had in general, specifically the cost of new guitars.

Bigsby

notsopro said:

chris78 said:

notsopro said:

chris78 said:

People still want covid prices for their gear. The market has adjusted to normal, prices haven't.
Brexit has meant new prices are way higher.
Be prepared to take a 40-50% haircut on a new guitar if you move it on. Thats what it used to be. 

for the sake of balance, new guitar prices have risen by the same % (within reason) across Europe, USA etc, Brexit is not responsible for the price increases. whilst we don't want to de-rail the topic, we also don't want to talk nonsense. 

there could be a conversation to be had with the cost of used guitars being impacted by Brexit if you're looking to sell / buy, as these will now incur some form of import fee's + vat, but in relation to new prices, the average cost of a new guitar is relative in every country. Yes the prices have gone up, along with everything else. 

I’ve literally been at a well known dealer today discussing the impact of brexit on guitar prices.
Import taxes.
Devaluation of the pound.
Increased admin for the dealer resulting in reduced stock.
Slower to get stock due to additional bureaucracy.

Yeah, let’s not talk nonsense and pretend it’s not had a significant impact.

has brexit had a significant impact in general, quite possibly yes. Has it had a significant impact on the retail price of a brand new guitar. I'm afraid not. Lets look at the 3 of the largest manufacturers, in the world. Fender, Gibson, PRS. The price of a standard strat, a standard les paul, and a standard core. The prices are essentially the same in US retailers as they are over here. So are you suggesting those companies said 'that brexit situation over in the EU has his us hard, we're going to have to raise our prices'? Or we could take an average Ibanez at eu retailers and compare them to some over here, the prices are almost identical... so what impact have we the consumer seen on brand new guitars?

All the other points taxes, devaluation of the pound, admin all that may be the case, but it hasn't affected the price we are paying compared to the rest of the world for new guitars, so how can you possibly argue it's caused the prices to rise?

The prices of new stuff has gone up yes, but there's a lot of other stuff that is responsible rather than Brexit. So my comment stands, if you think Brexit has caused the price of new guitars to go up when the price has gone up all over the world, including in markets where the guitars are made, i think that is nonsense.

*edit* - hadn't seen oilcitys post.

whilst all that may be true, my point wasn't on the impact brexit has had in general, specifically the cost of new guitars.

Are they? This is just a one off observation - and may be highly unrepresentative, but by chance I noticed the US$ price Fender are asking for the 70th Anniversary Ultra Strat is $2,499, which should convert to about £2010, but the UK Fender price is £2,649. I just checked the Euro price on their site, it's €2,999, which converts to £2,579 - so we do seem to be paying more than anyone else (and yes, it's an incredibly small sample size!). 

Totally unrelated: I'm also puzzled how Fender's EU site is showing these as 'in stock' whilst UK dealers are quoting 3 months+ or September for availability. Doesn't seem very fair to the dealers.