Scary stuff , these AI generated songs are quite good

barnstorm

Kurtis said:

Andy warthole would love this stuff!

I maybe wouldn't officially call someone from the ai image thread an artist based purely on that alone, but is it not at least an artistic endeavour? Using one's imagination to create images that people enjoy looking at? 

I'm sure you're dead right about Warhol. AI is the perfect tool for an 'ideas man' fraudster who wants to churn out derivative work quickly and cheaply – a studio assistant that doesn't need a lunch break or ask for a living wage

I'd have a bit more patience for the idea that AI is just the 21st-century equivalent of a paintbrush and palette if not for all the evidence that it's largely being used in creative fields to replace imaginative thought.

Every generation re-litigates what counts as art (or an artistic endeavour), so there's a good chance that my views end up being regarded as hopelessly old-fashioned within just a few years, if they're not already!

barnstorm

thecolourbox said:

I think one of the more interesting off shoots of the whole AI in art thing, is that it makes for fascination discussion of what art is, how it's created, and how much of what we do actually is learned the same way that AI does it really. Like when I play music, am I really doing anything more than just repairing various bits of existing melody and harmony in a style? We can say "ah no but what I play comes from the soul or the heart" or whatever but does it really? Why is it that so many of our souls song only in the pentatonic blues scale? Surely if we were purely playing from souls there would be a lot more variation in harmonies and melodies and tunings and everything like that 

Just quite fascinating to truly evaluate what the differences are and whether they are really differences, or whether our pretensions are what differentiate us from the AI stuff

Slight tangent re. the way we learn… This is from a story about an interesting recent study:

'The authors use the real-life example of a bear fishing for salmon. The bear can see the river and it has learnt that if it can also hear the river and smell the salmon it is likely to catch one. 

'But one day, the bear arrives at the river with a damaged ear, so it can’t hear it. In an artificial neural network information processing model, this lack of hearing would also result in a lack of smell (because while learning there is no sound, backpropagation would change multiple connections including those between neurons encoding the river and the salmon) and the bear would conclude that there is no salmon, and go hungry. 

'But in the animal brain, the lack of sound does not interfere with the knowledge that there is still the smell of the salmon, therefore the salmon is still likely to be there for catching.'

No doubt the findings are already being used to help build the machine overlords of the future, but we can feel superior for a bit longer yet!

Philly_Q

barnstorm said:

Kurtis said:

I don't know. There's people creating ai generated images on here that's fun. 

I dont see why creating good music using ai shouldn't be considered art.

You could call people using AI to make pictures/music 'editors', I guess, but not 'artists'.

If I ask an AI to write a joke about an Englishman, an Irishman and a Scotsman, and it manages to spit out a funny one, that doesn't make me a comedian.

No, it makes you a 1970s throwback.  Or does it make the AI a 1970s throwback...?

Philly_Q

hollywoodrox said:

I listened to this AI song on suno & I’m quite impressed 
https://suno.com/song/30aa8605-e3b5-4f00-a7bc-582bdbcdce82

sounds exactly like stuff I listen to
there are loads of genres  it’s so scary  that it’s getting this good 

It sounds like the sort of track Spotify sometimes throws at me in playlists.  In fact I heard some very similar songs on Spotify less than 24 hours ago.  One of them was a band called Banshee, I think, maybe they're AI...

But it also sounds like the sort of track I skip when that happens.  Much like that Banshee track.  It's not bad, but it doesn't (yet) sound real.  It's very, very generic.

There are bands I like quite a lot who seem to write songs to a formula, which doesn't vary very much... which is OK, because I like the formula.  Evanescence and Disturbed spring to mind.  I can imagine AI simulating them pretty accurately.

hollywoodrox

Philly_Q said:

hollywoodrox said:

I listened to this AI song on suno & I’m quite impressed 
https://suno.com/song/30aa8605-e3b5-4f00-a7bc-582bdbcdce82

sounds exactly like stuff I listen to
there are loads of genres  it’s so scary  that it’s getting this good 

It sounds like the sort of track Spotify sometimes throws at me in playlists.  In fact I heard some very similar songs on Spotify less than 24 hours ago.  One of them was a band called Banshee, I think, maybe they're AI...

But it also sounds like the sort of track I skip when that happens.  Much like that Banshee track.  It's not bad, but it doesn't (yet) sound real.  It's very, very generic.

There are bands I like quite a lot who seem to write songs to a formula, which doesn't vary very much... which is OK, because I like the formula.  Evanescence and Disturbed spring to mind.  I can imagine AI simulating them pretty accurately.

There are some good symphonic ,operatic metal type tracks on there & Japanese city pop type stuff I would have been proud to write . Like you said they are quite generic  but then so are some written by people better than me .  I suppose if you can write from the soul or whatever the ether speaks to you that may speak to people more , I think great songs are like a gift , perhaps the AI is just going to replace  factory/production line written songs & there will still be a place for music from peoples hearts , that’s what I sincerely hope . 

Haych

How long before a big label starts pushing an AI band?

I can see the record industry testing the market with a single first, see how the public react when it's played on radio.  Then I can see a full blown marketing gimmick, with an album of AI generated music along with imaginary characters of which "the band" is made up, with their own distinct personalities and fashion sense.

That should get people anthropomorphising the AI and forming an attachment of sorts.

Next will come the merch and before you know it the sheeple have bought into an imaginary construct while the record label doesn't have to pay anyone for the content.

Sounds like a far fetched concept but I can see it happening within a couple of years.

Emp_Fab

Haych said:

How long before a big label starts pushing an AI band

Sounds like a far fetched concept but I can see it happening within a couple of months.

FTFY

guitargeek62

Haych said:

How long before a big label starts pushing an AI band?

I can see the record industry testing the market with a single first, see how the public react when it's played on radio.  Then I can see a full blown marketing gimmick, with an album of AI generated music along with imaginary characters of which "the band" is made up, with their own distinct personalities and fashion sense.

That should get people anthropomorphising the AI and forming an attachment of sorts.

Next will come the merch and before you know it the sheeple have bought into an imaginary construct while the record label doesn't have to pay anyone for the content.

Sounds like a far fetched concept but I can see it happening within a couple of years.

I absolutely see this happening.

They could also 'tour' them with AI-generated holo-projected avatars. MTV of the future, perhaps?


...or BladeRunner realised.

Iamnobody

guitargeek62 said:

Haych said:

How long before a big label starts pushing an AI band?

I can see the record industry testing the market with a single first, see how the public react when it's played on radio.  Then I can see a full blown marketing gimmick, with an album of AI generated music along with imaginary characters of which "the band" is made up, with their own distinct personalities and fashion sense.

That should get people anthropomorphising the AI and forming an attachment of sorts.

Next will come the merch and before you know it the sheeple have bought into an imaginary construct while the record label doesn't have to pay anyone for the content.

Sounds like a far fetched concept but I can see it happening within a couple of years.

I absolutely see this happening.

They could also 'tour' them with AI-generated holo-projected avatars. MTV of the future, perhaps?


...or BladeRunner realised.

Absolutely isn’t this the logical progression of Gorrilaz. We’ve had a ‘virtual’ band since the late 90s so it’s just the next step. 

Haych

Iamnobody said:

Absolutely isn’t this the logical progression of Gorrilaz. We’ve had a ‘virtual’ band since the late 90s so it’s just the next step. 

The same thought occurred to me also, although at least with Gorrilaz there were human creators behind it, even if the front was a facade.

With the recent popularity of K-Pop/J-Pop etc, and can see something along those lines - the fan base is mad and dedicated and as they're generally quite young, they're probably a good target audience to accept AI content and shift the paradigm.

TimmyO

It's a fun tool and surprisingly good at incorporating what you ask it for - by definition the output is a bit by-numbers - but if you rely on income from instrumental incedental music composing then this type of thing could cause you problems 

thecolourbox

Is it possible that the threat of AI making music quite generically could actually motivate musicians and artists to be more "out there" and creative rather than just rehashing the same stuff? Or conforming to existing ideas like AI essentially would be doing? Could that become their unique selling point vs mass produced AI music?

Philly_Q

Haych said:

Iamnobody said:

Absolutely isn’t this the logical progression of Gorrilaz. We’ve had a ‘virtual’ band since the late 90s so it’s just the next step. 

The same thought occurred to me also, although at least with Gorrilaz there were human creators behind it, even if the front was a facade.

We've also got Abba and now Kiss retiring and continuing as avatars, I don't know how much AI, specifically, plays a part in that but it's not far removed.

Haych said:

With the recent popularity of K-Pop/J-Pop etc, and can see something along those lines - the fan base is mad and dedicated and as they're generally quite young, they're probably a good target audience to accept AI content and shift the paradigm.

Yes, that seems the most likely market.  Also it saves them the problem of having to pension off band members when they're not pretty enough any more.  And no more of those weird stories about band members "betraying the fans" by being in relationships.

Haych

Philly_Q said:

We've also got Abba and now Kiss retiring and continuing as avatars, I don't know how much AI, specifically, plays a part in that but it's not far removed.

I suppose the difference is that the members of ABBA/Kiss still benefit financially.  If it was purely AI then there's no middleman, so to speak, between the audience and the record company.

Philly_Q

thecolourbox said:

Is it possible that the threat of AI making music quite generically could actually motivate musicians and artists to be more "out there" and creative rather than just rehashing the same stuff? Or conforming to existing ideas like AI essentially would be doing? Could that become their unique selling point vs mass produced AI music?

Also might there be a return to, like, actual bands playing instruments, in reaction not only to AI but also as a counterpoint to modern pop music being made largely on computers?  I know there have always been analog diehards but maybe it could have a real resurgence. 

Philly_Q

Haych said:

Philly_Q said:

We've also got Abba and now Kiss retiring and continuing as avatars, I don't know how much AI, specifically, plays a part in that but it's not far removed.

I suppose the difference is that the members of ABBA/Kiss still benefit financially.  If it was purely AI then there's no middleman, so to speak, between the audience and the record company.

Yes, absolutely, I was thinking the same.  Why pay all that money to Bennys and Bjorns and Pauls and Genes when you can cut real people out of the whole process?  Of course you have to build a following somehow, which again takes us back to the K-Pop thing, which is inherently artificial even though real people are involved.

hollywoodrox

thecolourbox said:

I think one of the more interesting off shoots of the whole AI in art thing, is that it makes for fascination discussion of what art is, how it's created, and how much of what we do actually is learned the same way that AI does it really. Like when I play music, am I really doing anything more than just repairing various bits of existing melody and harmony in a style? We can say "ah no but what I play comes from the soul or the heart" or whatever but does it really? Why is it that so many of our souls song only in the pentatonic blues scale? Surely if we were purely playing from souls there would be a lot more variation in harmonies and melodies and tunings and everything like that 

Just quite fascinating to truly evaluate what the differences are and whether they are really differences, or whether our pretensions are what differentiate us from the AI stuff

Indeed , perhaps we are part of the main program & AI is just a subroutine in the master program 

Kurtis

It will probably be mainly used as a tool like synths/piano roll. Not got an orchestra, drum kit etc. to hand, and to come up with ideas.
I don't really think it's a big threat to any jobs really. You still need someone to get anything out of it, let alone anything good.

It's a bit like saying calculators put mathematicians out of work, or stop people thinking (being creative). 

Kurtis

I wonder how it will effect things legally.

What if ai comes up with a melody that's already been used?

Suppose it still comes down to the person that uses it to make money. 

hollywoodrox

Kurtis said:

It will probably be mainly used as a tool like synths/piano roll. Not got an orchestra, drum kit etc. to hand, and to come up with ideas.
I don't really think it's a big threat to any jobs really. You still need someone to get anything out of it, let alone anything good.

It's a bit like saying calculators put mathematicians out of work, or stop people thinking (being creative). 

It’s already out though , tell it you want a symphonic metal song about an ice tower & it writes it , plays the instruments ,sings ,produces etc