Vintage style Tele bridges

Supportact

I changed my tele traditional 3 saddle bridge to a 3 saddle compensated one (where they are slanted). I didn't like the feeling of it as much so I changed it back shortly afterwards. That's a very subjective and non scientific contribution to the discussion, I realise. Maybe I shouldn't tinker with it, but sometimes you just have to try something out. 

ICBM

p90fool said:

The bigger question is, why is a single non intonatable saddle still acceptable on acoustic guitars? 

Well, Takamine and Lowden both use a two-piece saddle which gives much more accurate intonation - although in fact, you can get very close to this, close enough for almost all string sets, by carving the top of a straight saddle to the right profile, which is essentially two straight lines from front to back under the E/B, and the G/D/A/E. I do this to all acoustics if I’m doing a full set-up or replacing the saddle, and it’s usually correct to within the variance caused by finger pressure.

The alternative is fitting a sort of tune-o-matic adjustable bridge into the wooden bridge base, as done on the original Gibson Dove and some Yamahas… but acoustic purists think this ruins the tone.

barnstorm

@p90fool , the six-saddle ones that exist for acoustic guitars always look really clumsy to me, and I imagine the appearance is reason enough for most people to dismiss them, knowing what guitarists are like! I think the slanted two-piece ones mentioned by @ICBM are attractive, though.

Angela Waltner, a builder of classicals, uses an interesting three-saddle design that her mentor came up with a good 50 years ago, apparently. The saddles are loose on a sloping plane and held in place by string tension:

The only electric-guitar-style design I've seen that I quite like is actually one for the ukulele, by Kakumae:

strtdv

3 saddles is fine for guitar led music but if you're playing with something that is absolutely in tune (keyboard for instance), you do notice it and find yourself wanting compensated saddles 

BobHillman

Regarding compensated acoustic saddles, I've always wondered whether having a set of slots, which can have a short piece of fret wire inserted, like on some Hofner hollowbodies would be an alternative.

Dave_Mc

Voxman said:

HAL9000 said:

The other thing ‘wrong’ with the original Tele bridge assembly was the raised sides of the plate - only really there to grip the ashtray which most players ditched or lost anyway. Apparently the ashtray was only ever there for aesthetic reasons; Leo thought the three-saddle bridge looked ugly.

Wasn't the ashtray to help reduce noise by acting as a Faraday cage? Or was that just coincidental to the aesthetics? 

No that was to stop you from being able to palm-mute. Gibson had to compete and so tried a similar idea on the original Les Paul model...

rze99

Leo certainly created something special and the 3 barrel at least had a degree of adjustability, unlike many other bridges of the time.

I have more Teles than anyone sane ever should and have tried many bridge and saddle arrangements. I prefer 3 barrel bridges - they sound better -  flush height saddle screws  (so now digging into hand) and I prefer them to intonated, one way or another. 

Voxman

Various reasons for the ashtray - mainly aesthetics, but it does other things, and interesting vid here:

elstoof

Just have to Google image search 1940s lap steel to see what the trend was at the time for sticking covers over bridges and pickups

Musical_Mystery_Tour

Back when the Tele first came out, playing right up at  the dusty end was far less commonplace, so finding a good average for intonation was easier to achieve, thus the advantage of two strings holding a saddle down outweighed the intonation trade off.

On the subject of it giving it a Tele twang, that's something of a myth. A lot of it was really down to the country picking which many Tele users did back in the 50s. The classic proof of that is the fact that loads of people think the James Bond theme is played on a Tele, when in fact it is played on a big old jazzer guitar and it is simply the playing style which gives it that twangy sound which gets associated with the Tele, for the aforementioned style reason rather than because of the Tele's characteristics.

Devil#20

I thought the reason for having 3 compensated barrels was so you had the option to top load if you wanted to. You can't with the 6 separate saddles. 

ICBM

Devil#20 said:

I thought the reason for having 3 compensated barrels was so you had the option to top load if you wanted to. You can't with the 6 separate saddles. 

The early bridges never had that option, they have no string holes in the back. That’s something that was only ever done on a few late-50s bridges as far as I know - as well as some modern cheapos.

WezV

BenSirAmos said:

I sometimes wonder if compensated saddles are compensating for poorly cut nuts. 

in a way, they are. 

We rely on those adjustable saddles to fix all intonation issues across the whole neck.  They are never going to do this perfectly, whether its 3 or 6 saddles

When you use a compensated nut you usually need less adjustment at the bridge

ICBM

WezV said:

We rely on those adjustable saddles to fix all intonation issues across the whole neck.  They are never going to do this perfectly, whether its 3 or 6 saddles

You can get very close though. A lot of the problem is excessive relief, which means you’re bending the strings sharp in the middle of the neck. When I had a Rickenbacker 660/12 with the 12-saddle bridge, the nut cut properly low and zero relief - as Rickenbackers are supposed to be set up - every note at every fret on all 12 strings was in tune to within 1 cent, apart from the very highest couple of frets on the low E and the highest on the A. I checked them all out of curiosity!

WezV

ICBM said:

WezV said:

We rely on those adjustable saddles to fix all intonation issues across the whole neck.  They are never going to do this perfectly, whether its 3 or 6 saddles

You can get very close though. A lot of the problem is excessive relief, which means you’re bending the strings sharp in the middle of the neck. When I had a Rickenbacker 660/12 with the 12-saddle bridge, the nut cut properly low and zero relief - as Rickenbackers are supposed to be set up - every note at every fret on all 12 strings was in tune to within 1 cent, apart from the very highest couple of frets on the low E and the highest on the A. I checked them all out of curiosity!

I agree.

honestly, i'm not sure I want the guitar to be perfect.  The instrument we know and love is a series of compromises.  But it is compromises that work well

I'm not sure what fret calculation Ric's use... but wouldn't be surprised if it was the old school rule of 18 on some era's.  This adds a little compensation to each fret position anyway. Apparently when Gibson did a study into improved intonation in the 50's they ended up back at the rule of 18, despite its mathematical imperfections

ICBM

WezV said:

honestly, i'm not sure I want the guitar to be perfect.  The instrument we know and love is a series of compromises.  But it is compromises that work well

It’s funny you should say that… .

Actually it *was* too perfect - it was so in tune it somehow lacked a bit of the ‘12-stringness’ compared to my 360/12 which had the 6-saddle bridge and couldn’t quite take the same zero relief for some reason - it sounded beautiful, but almost like a fake 12-string sound, if that makes sense.