Setting up p90s?

robgilmo

Any tips? Is it necessary to adjust the pole pieces?

p90fool

There is a difference in tone between raising the pole pieces and raising the whole pickup.

I tend to prefer the slightly fatter option of raising the whole thing, but it depends a little on guitar and pickup construction and how far the pickup is from the saddles (a few millimetres makes a big difference).

Obviously if it's a dogear you'll need shims. 

All this is based on my preference for lower wind P90s, if they're highish output you may want to raise the pole pieces for more clarity. 

Danny1969

Do P90's need to be close to the strings or lower down ? .... I've got standard Gibson P90's, the first ones I've ever had 

Funkfingers

I apply the same rules as p90fool, regardless of how "hot" the pickups are. 

With vintage correct Gibson P90s, both positions are of similar output. Thus, to achieve a nice volume balance, it is desirable to set the neck pickup low and the bridge pickup fairly high - almost to the point that it wobbles alarmingly on its height adjustment screws.

On one of my budget LP Special copies, I avoid this faff by having Alegree P90s of c. 8 and 11k, respectively.

robgilmo

So wpould it be prudent to set the poles at the same radius of the strings then adjust PU height as a base? With a view to adjusting the poles again to achieve the tone? I want to steer towards bite and clarity rather than warmth? Assuming the higher the poles the more trebel and mids and taking into consideration a balance across the strings?

Edit, I take it straight into a clean amp is best for PU setting, or , should I set them up with the amp and pedals as I usually play?

Funkfingers

I am a "coil high, screws low" kinda guy.

On a soapbar P90, I begin with the outer polepiece screws right down and adjust the pickup end-to-end to get the two E strings sounding right (to me). Then, I adjust the A, D, G and B polepieces to balance their output relative to the E strings.

Run your amplifier and/or pedals in whatever configuration you will use most often. For me, as a noisy basket, that means saturated valve overdrive. I get my cleaner sounds by backing off the guitar's volume control(s).

YMMV

On a Casino or ES-330, I would adjust using an amplifier set clean.

pluckbuddy

Tom Bukovak said in a video that screw heights on P90s made absolutely no difference. On the other hand on TPS they lowered the height on the neck pickup of a Casino for less bass and compensated the output by raising the screws. That about sums up the internet for me. 

Perhaps try it yourself and report back your findings? Nothing irreversible unless the screwdriver slips!

robgilmo

Thanks guys, the pole screws , can they damage anything if screwed to either extreme? or pop out? Ive never seen inside one so dont know how they work.

OilCityPickups

pluckbuddy said:

Tom Bukovak said in a video that screw heights on P90s made absolutely no difference. On the other hand on TPS they lowered the height on the neck pickup of a Casino for less bass and compensated the output by raising the screws. That about sums up the internet for me. 

Perhaps try it yourself and report back your findings? Nothing irreversible unless the screwdriver slips!

I make the things ... and pole heights matter a lot. 

The biggest no no for me is the bridge dog ear P90 with it's pole pieces wiving about like daffodils above the pickup cover in an attempt to get good volume - on a guitar with too steep a neck set angle for an un-shimmed pickup! Make or buy some shims.  

pluckbuddy

OilCityPickups said:

pluckbuddy said:

Tom Bukovak said in a video that screw heights on P90s made absolutely no difference. On the other hand on TPS they lowered the height on the neck pickup of a Casino for less bass and compensated the output by raising the screws. That about sums up the internet for me. 

Perhaps try it yourself and report back your findings? Nothing irreversible unless the screwdriver slips!

I make the things ... and pole heights matter a lot. 

The biggest no no for me is the bridge dog ear P90 with it's pole pieces wiving about like daffodils above the pickup cover in an attempt to get good volume - on a guitar with too steep a neck set angle for an un-shimmed pickup! Make or buy some shims.  

Interesting. So you think screws do matter, but that raising the whole pickup is more significant/preferable? 

pluckbuddy

robgilmo said:

Thanks guys, the pole screws , can they damage anything if screwed to either extreme? or pop out? Ive never seen inside one so dont know how they work.

Nah. The screws are fairly long so they're unlikely to pop out unless you use an electric screwdriver or something! 

Their are pics on the internet that show what one looks like construction-wise.

Funkfingers

I do not like having the entire heads of the fillister polepiece screws protruding clear of the pickup cover. That suggests that the bobbin and coil are adjusted too far away from the strings.

OilCityPickups

pluckbuddy said:

OilCityPickups said:

pluckbuddy said:

Tom Bukovak said in a video that screw heights on P90s made absolutely no difference. On the other hand on TPS they lowered the height on the neck pickup of a Casino for less bass and compensated the output by raising the screws. That about sums up the internet for me. 

Perhaps try it yourself and report back your findings? Nothing irreversible unless the screwdriver slips!

I make the things ... and pole heights matter a lot. 

The biggest no no for me is the bridge dog ear P90 with it's pole pieces wiving about like daffodils above the pickup cover in an attempt to get good volume - on a guitar with too steep a neck set angle for an un-shimmed pickup! Make or buy some shims.  

Interesting. So you think screws do matter, but that raising the whole pickup is more significant/preferable? 

I din't think ... I know ... and all you have to do is spend twenty minutes messing about with pole heights versus whole pickup height and you will hear a difference yourself. 

As @Funkfingers says .. the whole of a fillister head above the top face of the pickup - and that whole pickup is too low. 

Dave_Mc

I prefer the sound with the polepieces higher. That's just me, though, I know a lot of people disagree.

(I agree with @OilCityPickups , if Tom Bukovac did say that (I haven't seen the video), I don't care how famous or how good a player he is, he's wrong! Polepieces make a difference, a pretty big one.)

I put a thicker shim into my Harley Benton SG Jr which has a pretty steep neck angle and I think I'm going to have to go back to the thinner one I had in there before, the low E and A are overpowering the high strings and are too bassy, and I can't get the E and A polepieces any lower...

I do tend to have a pretty drastic angle on my pickups (almost regardless of pickup type), I do prefer the treble side to be a lot closer to the strings, first of all so the bass strings don't overpower the treble ones, and secondly so the bass isn't too muddy.

Dave_Mc

robgilmo said:

Thanks guys, the pole screws , can they damage anything if screwed to either extreme? or pop out? Ive never seen inside one so dont know how they work.

I don't think so (hopefully @OilCityPickups can confirm) unless you drop the screwdriver on the guitar or something like that. Assuming they're more or less the same screws as in humbuckers, even if they do come out you can just put them back in. Just be careful, as I said above, if they're already screwed in as far as they can go they might not go in any further.

OilCityPickups

Dave_Mc said:

robgilmo said:

Thanks guys, the pole screws , can they damage anything if screwed to either extreme? or pop out? Ive never seen inside one so dont know how they work.

I don't think so (hopefully @OilCityPickups can confirm) unless you drop the screwdriver on the guitar or something like that. Assuming they're more or less the same screws as in humbuckers, even if they do come out you can just put them back in. Just be careful, as I said above, if they're already screwed in as far as they can go they might not go in any further.

In general P90 bobbins are made of a plastic or fibre material so screwing in WAY too far and forcing things can and will strip the thread in the bobbin ... going the other way all that will happen is that the pole screw will pop out. 

Dave_Mc

robgilmo said:

So wpould it be prudent to set the poles at the same radius of the strings then adjust PU height as a base? With a view to adjusting the poles again to achieve the tone? I want to steer towards bite and clarity rather than warmth? Assuming the higher the poles the more trebel and mids and taking into consideration a balance across the strings?

Edit, I take it straight into a clean amp is best for PU setting, or , should I set them up with the amp and pedals as I usually play?

I'm probably risking looking like an idiot here for disagreeing with @Funkfingers as he's usually correct, but I would probably adjust them with a clean setting, because distortion adds compression which will even out the volume levels of the different strings, which will make it much more difficult to set them properly. So for that reason I prefer to use the amp set clean for adjusting pickups. Of course, once you have it set, then set the amp and/or pedals up the way you usually play just to check it sounds right!

A lot of this stuff unfortunately gets a lot easier once you've done it a bit. I basically set the pickup height roughly by eye (as it's easier to adjust it roughly before you have the guitar strapped on) to be closeish to the correct height and angle- probably a bit lower than it needs to be as that means I have some leeway to either raise the pickup height (unless it's a dogear P90) or the polepieces, depending on the sound I'm after. If it's too bright I'll raise the pickup to get it to its proper distance from the strings, if it's too dark I'll raise the polepieces to the correct distance from the strings. Then I'll adjust the polepieces for the string-to-string balance.

It's up to you whether you want to steer more towards bite and clarity or warmth, it just depends on the tone you want.

Dave_Mc

OilCityPickups said:

Dave_Mc said:

robgilmo said:

Thanks guys, the pole screws , can they damage anything if screwed to either extreme? or pop out? Ive never seen inside one so dont know how they work.

I don't think so (hopefully @OilCityPickups can confirm) unless you drop the screwdriver on the guitar or something like that. Assuming they're more or less the same screws as in humbuckers, even if they do come out you can just put them back in. Just be careful, as I said above, if they're already screwed in as far as they can go they might not go in any further.

In general P90 bobbins are made of a plastic or fibre material so screwing in WAY too far and forcing things can and will strip the thread in the bobbin ... going the other way all that will happen is that the pole screw will pop out. 

Yep that's what I was worried about! Thanks for confirming

BillDL

I usually start with the two outside polepieces / screws set so they are just proud of the pickup surface and then match the fretboard / bridge radius on the remaining poles / screws.  I then deliberately set the pickup too high so I can hear the damping effect of the magnetic pull on the strings, start lowering the whole pickup until those effects go away, and lower it a bit more.  I then balance the sound by incrementally lowering one or other side of the pickup and raising or lowering individual polepieces to compensate for any overpowering or underpowered string volumes.  In general I probably have my pickups on most guitars set lower than what the paper spec suggests for a good setup because I usually find that most guitars ring out better being a bit lower than paper spec tells me.  I haven't had a lot of experience with soapbar P90s, but on dogear ones I've normally had to spend a lot more time experimenting with shims and polepiece heights to get the string volumes to balance well.

Funkfingers

Dave_Mc said:

I'm probably risking looking like an idiot here for disagreeing with Funkfingers as he's usually correct

Oh, no, he isn't. 

My opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's.

I adjust P90s through overdriven valve amplification for the reason I stated previously. I use these pickups for their unique capabilities in generating filthy Rock 'n' Roll sounds. 

You should use whatever approach is best for you.

Dave_Mc

Funkfingers said:

Dave_Mc said:

I'm probably risking looking like an idiot here for disagreeing with Funkfingers as he's usually correct

Oh, no, he isn't. 

My opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's.

I adjust P90s through overdriven valve amplification for the reason I stated previously. I use these pickups for their unique capabilities in generating filthy Rock 'n' Roll sounds. 

You should use whatever approach is best for you.

LOL that's nice of you to say, but you usually are right- but I meant more from a correct/incorrect factual point of view- I was worried I might be saying something wrong and someone would be along to point out why you shouldn't use a clean tone as it didn't work as well!

I do usually play distorted too, my feeling was just that it was easier to hear string-to-string balance using a clean tone with less compression... however, considering pickups sound "wrong" when they don't have the heights correctly set even through a distorted amp, I might be overcomplicating it!