Roland Cube 80XL ... Didn't Last Long

Bellycaster

On Wednesday at rehearsal we all started to smell that unmistakable aroma of Electrical Burning. Turned out it was coming from my Roland Cube 80XL that I use for rehearsals. Only the 2nd rehearsal and actually on the first one we could smell something late on, but it wasn't as potent as the 2nd time.

I have a slightly poor sense of smell, so credit has to be given to the rest of the Band more than myself.

I switched it off before it got worse or completely fecked, getting close up to it, it was giving off "That Smell" but there was no smoke. The amp is only 7 or 8 months old and hasn't been played that much, in the house I've played it only at lowish volume (between 1 and 2 etc) but it has been looked after and covered with it's own cover. I've followed all the correct procedure of making sure the Volume controls are off when switching on, everything is on zero when I switch on and off.

Could I have overworked it? It has been cranked to 75% Volume(necessary, yes) for these 2 rehearsals and on the latest occasion has had my pedalboard running into the JC Clean Channel. Although the week before I had it cranked to the same volume using the Gain Modelling channels(with no pedalboard).

Can any of the Pedals on my board overload the amp, I wouldn't have said so as it is just an instrument signal, but I'm baffled to why the amp has seemingly failed so soon. I have the Bogner Ecstasy Pedals and a couple of Strymons, but surely they are only putting out an instrument signal, plus all the pedals are true bypass no buffer in the chain.

All the pedals were at unity gain and even the boost function on the Bogners are only set to boost about 5 - 10% for solos.

At it's worst on the latest occasion, it also sounded very rough when I engaged the Bogner Red Pedal, they are noisyish with "white noise" but this was very ugly noise compared to the usual acceptable noise you get from it.

Surely they are built to withstand the volume they are created to put out and I thought Roland products were renowned for reliability, mine may just be an exception, who knows.

Anyone had similar failings with the Cube range or any advice as to what might have failed electrically?

Thank You.

thisisguitar

Do you remember the 90s slogan…

Roland - We Design The Furniture Future!

In seriousness though, hope you get it sorted

Voxman

If you bought it new it will still be under warranty. Suggest you take it back to the store for repair or replacement.

ElectroDan

Don't they give 3 years warranty on these?

Bellycaster

@thisisguitar

Don't remember the slogan, but tis true indeed, it's just an expensive door wedge at the moment.

@Voxman

It will still be under warranty and they'll be getting a call tomorrow, but I am very curious to know if I've done anything out of the ordinary to it with what I described in the O.P. Regarding pushing the Amp to 75% Volume or whacking pedals through it when it might not like it etc.

I never envisaged a problem with what I've subjected it to, it should be able to take it surely. They are better amps than that, it's only a back up thing, but then the back up of the back up has to come into play, Lol.

:-D

Fretwired

Roland Cube amps are bullet proof. Sounds like you have a rare duff amp. I can't see that you've done anything wrong and knowing Roland you'll get a replacement amp.

Bellycaster

Thanks @Fretwired

Bit of a pisser, but I'll get onto it.

Kebabkid

I agree with fretwired. I've not had this model Cube but I've had the 60 and a Microcube for years, gigged them etc with no issues and can't see what you're doing volume or pedal-wise that would cause this. The shop should sort you out a replacement under the generous Roland warranty but I, too, would say this is a rare case. I hope you get this sorted

ICBM

Sorry, I can't agree about them being bulletproof. I've seen a couple of dead Cubes, and they just aren't that robust inside. Not like the old JC series which really are.

The new Cubes use an integrated circuit power module instead of discrete transistors. These are usually fine when used within their limits, but don't like being pushed and are not reliable when done so, even though they are supposed to be protected against overloads. A very common problem with many modern solid-state amps - I would tend to avoid amps built like this if you can.

That electrical burning/hot paint smell can sometimes come from an overworked speaker voice coil too.

It is possible to overload an amp with pedals, especially things that put out higher level, a wider frequency range or a stressful waveform (ie heavy fuzz, octavers and resonant filters particularly) than a normal guitar signal, but most amps will take it. It can be trouble for borderline ones though, and from the Cube 60s I've seen inside (haven't seen a Cube 80 yet) I would put them in that category.

Kebabkid

Really surprised by that @ICBM as I've gigged my Cube 60 to within an inch of its life for over 10 years and some of my functions, the Greek ones, have resulted in the amp being used for about 5 continuous hours at volume. I've even played bass through it for low volume gigs.

That's worrying as I've just kitted out a rehearsal room at work with 2 X Cube 80s and a Bass Cube 120XL (I have one of those too) and the gear is expected to be used most days for up to 3hrs a session.

I hope it all gets sorted out J for the Cube, and the Mesa

ICBM

To be fair, I have no idea what the failure rate is and I may have come across the only two blown ones in Scotland.

But I was not very impressed with the design and build quality. To be honest I don't really like them at all, I find them massively over-rated soundwise as well, I really can't see why people think they're so great. In fact I generally don't like IC power module amps for that reason either, it's rare to find one that sounds really good.

I would have to admit that a local rehearsal studio which seems to be able to kill just about anything has had the best luck with its Line 6 amps though - to my great surprise! - and they are IC-module amps too.

It is also possible that Bellycaster's one is a speaker problem, since when IC power modules die they usually do so terminally, and often with smoke - they don't just go rough-sounding.

Bellycaster

Thanks @Kebabkid and @ICBM

It's under warranty and being collected on Tuesday, but I am now very underwhelmed and feel I've selected the wrong amp for the job. Seems some are reliable like @Kebabkid says, maybe the older models were built better, I don't know.

My version may be robust enough if miced up at 40% Volume, but I have a feeling they don't like being "really worked" and that I need.

@ICBM

Don't know if you can allay my extra worries. The other guy in the band had a spare Fender Frontman 212R 100 watts(not sure what age it is,looks newish) that he lent me for the remainder of the rehearsal. It was ok, but only used it for 30mins or so. I don't want to damage his amp on top of everything else.

Do you have any clue as to whether these amps can handle what I'm chucking at it, it was on 8 on Volume and then there is the pedalboard.

Thanks.

ICBM

Bellycaster said:

@ICBM

Don't know if you can allay my extra worries. The other guy in the band had a spare Fender Frontman 212R 100 watts(not sure what age it is,looks newish) that he lent me for the remainder of the rehearsal. It was ok, but only used it for 30mins or so. I don't want to damage his amp on top of everything else.

Oh dear… be careful.

Those are actually quite good amps, but they have two problems - two high power resistors on the PCB which overheat and desolder themselves (easy and cheap to fix); and a tendency to blow both speakers (easy but expensive to fix!) - the speakers just aren't up to taking the power of the amp. There is one with exactly this fault in the shop at the moment, I've personally come across several, and heard of others. On the other hand they're so cheap new that even if you factor in a pair of decent speakers it probably doesn't work out too bad!

The problem is that a lot of modern cheap amps simply aren't designed and built conservatively enough to withstand being fully cranked and then pedals in front as well - in order to keep costs down they cut the spec to 'just enough' in critical areas.

Amps which I know will take rehearsal-room levels of abuse, and don't cost a fortune:

Old:

Peaveys, eg Bandit (USA-made models). Not fashionable, but good-sounding, loud and bombproof. They are getting old now and sometimes need maintenance, but are extremely reliable in general. They can sometimes blow speakers too though.

Most solid-state Laneys, Carlsbro, HH etc despite their anti-snob factor. Old Fender solid-states aren't too bad.

New:

Blackstar ID series. I know these haven't been out long enough to really know for sure yet, but a studio I work for has one (ID60 head) and they have failed to kill it in almost two years, unlike all their other amps except the old Peaveys. Dave (@ecc83) knows more about how rigorously the power sections were tested too, and I have little doubt they will hold up. I've never even heard of a dead one yet.

Marshall MG Carbon Fibre series, I think - never seen or heard of a dead one of those either. But NOT the MG-DFX series, those are dire. In fact avoid any Marshall with a cooling fan, which includes all these and the AVTs as well.

Line 6 seem surprisingly tough. They had some early problems but were quite pro-active in fixing them. Likewise Behringer, to my complete amazement...

Also avoid any Ashdown, Trace Elliot (guitar, their bass amps are OK), solid-state Hiwatt, Crate… probably more but that will do for now!

Jeremiah

What are the modern Peaveys and Laneys like?

Bellycaster

Thanks @ICBM

His amp is Ok, but prevention is better than cure.

Seems I'll be stuck with a Cube 80XL as the Warranty covers repair or replace, refund doesn't seem part of the deal. Could flog it at a loss but not ideal.

Oh well, plod on.

ICBM

Jeremiah said:

What are the modern Peaveys and Laneys like?

Not quite so good, although not as bad as the 'avoid' ones.

p90fool

@Bellycaster if you're running a 100w Frontman 2x12 with the volume on 8 you must have a seriously loud band!

midlifecrisis

p90fool said:

@Bellycaster if you're running a 100w Frontman 2x12 with the volume on 8 you must have a seriously loud band!

my thoughts, I gigged one for a year with a seriously loud drummer, never got it above 3 and a half. not a bad amp, for a 212 nice and light and it looks like a proper fender amp too.

ICBM

midlifecrisis said:

not a bad amp, for a 212 nice and light and it looks like a proper fender amp too.

I like them too, speakers aside - and only because they blow, they sound OK. You can even get a half-decent drive tone out of them if you set the controls fairly radically… starting with treble at zero!

midlifecrisis

I liked mine but got rid of it as I managed to convince myself it couldn't be any good as it was solid state and cheap, I was foolish lol

Bellycaster

@p90fool

My thoughts exactly, it's fecking loud indeed. They set the PA up quite loud for the practices and the Drummer has hydraulic arms I'm sure of it ;-)

Funny thing is, on the Audition, I took up my Bogner GF45 watt Head and 2x12 Cab and I didn't seem to have to turn that up as loud as I had to with the Cube and his Fender Frontman.

I had the Bogner on the half power (23 watts) setting and had the Master and Gain only just over halfway on the clean channel with my pedalboard through it. It cut through amazingly well.

Re the Frontman 212R, it has 2 inputs, what's the difference in the 2? I went into Input 1.