Roland Cube 80XL ... Didn't Last Long

ICBM

Bellycaster said:

Funny thing is, on the Audition, I took up my Bogner GF45 watt Head and 2x12 Cab and I didn't seem to have to turn that up as loud as I had to with the Cube and his Fender Frontman.

I had the Bogner on the half power (23 watts) setting and had the Master and Gain only just over halfway on the clean channel with my pedalboard through it. It cut through amazingly well.

Welcome to the difference between "valve watts" and "solid state watts" .

Despite there being no actual physical difference, watts are watts. But valve amps just sound far louder for a given power rating…

Bellycaster said:

Re the Frontman 212R, it has 2 inputs, what's the difference in the 2? I went into Input 1. 

Input 2 is quieter and softer-sounding. It's often recommended for very loud or bright guitars, or active pickups.

Bellycaster

I suspected that the valves would make a huge difference, but didn't realise how much until the practical lesson came up ;-)

Thanks for the explanation of the 2 inputs as well on the 212R.

Is it meant to be the "Solid State(and cheaper)" version of a Twin, I assume it is.

 

ICBM

Bellycaster said:

Is it meant to be the "Solid State(and cheaper)" version of a Twin, I assume it is.

Kind of. Or just a very simple, classic Fender design made as cheaply as they can... either way it comes out about the same!

Bellycaster said:

I suspected that the valves would make a huge difference, but didn't realise how much until the practical lesson came up ;-)

 

It can be as much as about 5 to 1 in perceived volume relative to measured power, depending on the exact amps - even through equivalent speakers. So not too surprising that the Bogner at 23W could outperform the Fender at 100.

Bellycaster

5 to 1 difference, double Blimey!

ICBM

I know, it is amazing! It's very hard to believe that the measured power can be so different, sometimes. I would guess that the Bogner's speakers will be more efficient than the Roland and Fender's too, which gives it even more of an advantage.

There are both real physics/electronics reasons and some psycho-acoustic ones, but all of them add up to a valve amp cutting through a mix perfectly where a solid-state amp of several times the power can just disappear into it.  It's just one of those happy accidents - a valve amp has exactly the right combination of soft overdrive, dynamics and frequency range narrowing to naturally sound loud to the human ear. A solid-state one doesn't - this is one of the main reasons it's very hard to make a solid-state amp that sounds as good as a valve amp at full band volume, although much easier at low volume.

Bellycaster

@ICBM

That was only the first proper time I'd cranked that Bogner up to any "real" Volume, it was hard to wipe the smile of my face I admit.

Is there something to be said for Amp and Cab vs Combo as well. The Bogner (45 watt amp) has a 2x12 Cab and the Mesa (when it comes back) is a 50 watt 1X12 Combo Amp. Even if the Mesa's "Watts" are greater, I have a feeling the 2x12 cab would somehow sound louder or bigger if those are the right words.