Les Paul tone knobs

ICBM

underdog said:

As mentioned earlier it makes the strings feel very different (in what way I can't quantify)

It makes them feel stiffer, even though the actual 'string tension' is the same - particularly when bending. I prefer that, although I can see why you might not.

For me it's more about how the guitar feels and resonates when the bridge is too high - I just don't like them like that. I've never come across one Gibson with an overly steep neck angle that I've liked - to the point where it's now the very first thing I check for, because if it's wrong there's no point going any further.

RaymondLin

Why is it so hard to get a tool and just check that angle when they put the neck on?

I personally think this is a major reason between a Gibson that has mojo and one has not.  That neck angle.  There is only 1 correct angle, the rest are wrong.  If you can get the neck angle right, you can pretty much have a fixed bridge.  They can do it for an acoustic, it is baffling why they don't do it for the electric.

It screams lazyness.

underdog

ICBM;496006" said:

underdog said:As mentioned earlier it makes the strings feel very different (in what way I can't quantify)










It makes them feel stiffer, even though the actual 'string tension' is the same - particularly when bending. I prefer that, although I can see why you might not.

For me it's more about how the guitar feels and resonates when the bridge is too high - I just don't like them like that. I've never come across one Gibson with an overly steep neck angle that I've liked - to the point where it's now the very first thing I check for, because if it's wrong there's no point going any further.

I found them more elastic feeling, like I'd gone down a Gage I guess. I'm going to try it again next string change to confirm I'm remembering it right.

gearaddict

Photos of the bridge...look ok? I find the action fairly high as it is.

Adam_MD

That tailpiece is really high wow. If that's as low as you can get the bridge and tailpiece id be sending it back.

underdog

Lower bridge until strings touch 'board, then higher it very slightly to lift it off the board. Then lower tail piece as low as possible without strings touching back of bridge. This should give you a low action, and optimal starting place for making small changes to suit you.

In the pics both look like they can go down a fair bit

Edit: I'm still really liking the top on that guitar.

ICBM

Looks much too high to me - and well above the range where it could be brought down to an acceptable height by lowering the action -but I admit I am not as tolerant of this as a lot of people seem to be.

If you think about it, there is simply no need for the bridge to be any higher than as Maynehead described above - there is never any useful setting of the bridge lower than where the strings are touching the fingerboard (even if that would be), so there is no reason for the bridge to be any higher than when that is a achieved with the bridge as low as it will go.

It throws the whole geometry of the guitar out when the neck angle is too steep so the bridge needs to be that high. I know there is a bit of photo distortion there too, but just look how steep the neck is in the side-on pics. Pretty top or not, I don't think I'd be happy with that.

I know, some people will say that if it sounds good then it's good. I don't agree because it's possible to have one that's built right as well as sounding good.

Maynehead

I still think the bridge height looks ok, but the tailpiece could be lowered more. There is still a gap between the strings and the back edge of the bridge.

If you want to confirm the correctness of the neck angle you can always perform the test we mentioned, i.e. lower the bridge to its full extent and make sure the strings are just touching the fretboard with some string tension applied. You may need to lower the bridge pickup slightly so it doesn't get in the way.

ICBM

Maynehead said:

If you want to confirm the correctness of the neck angle you can always perform the test we mentioned, i.e. lower the bridge to its full extent and make sure the strings are just touching the fretboard with some string tension applied. You may need to lower the bridge pickup slightly so it doesn't get in the way.

Even at that pic resolution you can see there's no way that will be possible. The strings will hit the fingerboard when the bridge is about half the height it is now probably.

I know that on a Nashville bridge the bushings on the body make it look less high than it is - and will actually stop the bridge going fully down - but just imagine how high it would look if that was an ABR-1. The bushings aren't a problem normally since you never want the action that low anyway - really, there's still no need for more downward travel than when the action is as low as anyone would ever possibly want it. (1mm maybe?)

I know I'm just being grumpy about this, but I hate LPs with steep neck angles! One of the nice things about real 50s ones is that they're always lower. I just don't want to spend twenty grand on a guitar when you can sometimes find modern ones which are OK too .

That's one of the things that still pisses me off about not buying that '56 Custom when I had the chance and they weren't worth that much… from memory the height wheels were no more than 1/8" above the top even with it refretted with jumbos, and it played superbly.

gearaddict

What's more of a worry is I just noticed the treble side is actually screwed all the way down...not much scope for lowering the action.

I feel a return coming on.

GuitarMonkey

It will go lower. There is a recess on the underside of the thumbwheel that fits over the anchor.

Maynehead

gearaddict said:

What's more of a worry is I just noticed the treble side is actually screwed all the way down...not much scope for lowering the action.

I feel a return coming on.

Yep, that's what I was worrying about too but couldn't be sure from the pics. Looks like the neck was not set flat, I.e. It's lower on the treble side than the bass side.

If it was my guitar I'd return it. 

underdog

GuitarMonkey;496679" said:

It will go lower. There is a recess on the underside of the thumbwheel that fits over the anchor.

What he said

As long as it goes low enough to give you your preferred action then it's fine. Like I said the neck angle on my LP allows the bridge to be really low, but ended moving it back up a bit as it felt better.

Return the guitar if you're not happy with how it feels, sounds or looks but not because you think you need to get the bridge lower than anyone would use

Maynehead

Yeah @underdog is right, don't let me put you off (sorry if I have already).

I don't have your guitar in hand and it's hard to judge these things from pictures.

If you lower the bridge as far as it will go (including the recess) and the action is still too high then it's a problem. If it becomes unusably low then you've got nothing to worry about.

ICBM

It is odd that there's that much difference between the treble and bass sides though. Either there's something very wrong with the set-up or the neck is not straight - there should be a small difference, but not that much. The treble side is about where it should be, the bass side is far too high.

gearaddict

Oh FFS. 

underdog

gearaddict;496732" said:

Oh FFS. 

Dare I ask what?

RaymondLin

underdog said:

gearaddict;496732" said:

Oh FFS. 

Dare I ask what?

Probably snapped a string moving the bridge ? 

not_the_dj

:-SS

underdog

RaymondLin;496778" said:

underdog said:

gearaddict;496732" said:Oh FFS. 

Dare I ask what?










Probably snapped a string moving the bridge ? 

Could be worse, could snap the bridge moving a string

My fear is always using screw driver on tail piece and ending up doing some impromptu relick work, hence suggesting to use a coin instead.