Please critique my band (positive constructive advice)

geepers0677

hey, some echoes in the above posts to be honest, oddly timed drum fills etc.

To me the problem is the singer, musically you guys are decent and I would def tap my feet standing at the bar of my local for sure, but at the risk of sounding brutal, there are more issues than confidence going on with that vocal - for me it's the use of the vibrato on any note longer than a second long, not knowing the words, notes are pitchy and shouty. Sometimes it is worth a singer having a couple of pro coaching sessions to line some stuff up. Most of us have done it with guitars at some point, maybe a few lessons to get started, and it's the same with the voice I reckon. I've been spoiled with our singer I guess, but we recently had to have a few awkward conversations with 3 of our 8, and now the band is 5 and better for it. 

The band though, def gig gig gig and it'll sound GREAT.

Good luck bud!

close2u

nickp said:

suggest you decide on temp of the songs - even if it is the same tempo as the original (google them).  Then get the iphone app that monitors the tempo that you are playing at.  

The idea is to consistently rehearse the song at the right starting tempo so that you guys become instinctive about the speeds ...

Cheers, wisdom.

Google throws varying bpms for so many songs - has anyone found a reliable source?

I can use my Zoom G3X tap tempo so I have a red flashing light at tempo.

Which app? Are there more than one to choose from?

Emp_Fab

IMO, the biggest problem with bands is not knowing what's wrong but getting the relevant members to listen, acknowledge and work on the weak points.  So many people have huge ego issues - too big or too small, refuse to believe they are anything but perfect or crumble at the slightest hint of constructive criticism.  It's a pain in the arse.  I think the Germans have got the right approach to improving things; 'Helmut, your drumming is not in time - you should practice at home with a metronome', 'Ya, Gunter, you are correct, I will work harder on my timings'.  Over here that would be "Geoff, if you don't mind me giving a little constructive criticism, in one or two songs, you're drifting a little with the timing - not much mind, the rest of your drumming is fine... great actually...  it's just these one or two spots.  Just an idea, tell me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs though, but would practising at home with a metronome be any use to you ?" 

"My timing's fine ! - if anyone needs to practice at home, it's you mate" / "Fuck you I quit".

In my current band, I've recently taken a step back from the role of 'musical director' because of the shit I was getting for it.  I've been accused of being too fussy, 'fiddling' with the gear all the time, taking too long to setup etc, when the reality, albeit from my perspective, is a) wanting us to all play the same version isn't being 'fussy', b) Adjusting the PA so everyone can hear each other without feedback and at sensible volumes, during rehearsals, isn't 'fiddling', it's 'trying to compensate for all the adjustments you're all making, and the singer's shit technique' - and rehearsal doesn't just mean rehearsing with my instrument, it also means polishing my mixing skills, because come the gigs, the only one who has any idea how the PA works is me, you're going to be standing there bleating 'I can't hear myself !', and c) As you have no idea what needs to plug into where, I end up doing it.  That's going to change though.

When you can hear that things can improve and you know you have the ability to achieve it, it's so frustrating to see people not grasp the nettle and accept constructive criticism for what it is.  ...and yes, I'm acutely aware of the irony in my post !

close2u

HAL9000 said:

... it looks on occasion as if your singer is watching the band (in particular the guitarist) for her cues. So I'd agree with others that the singer needs to be quite a bit more familiar with the pieces. 

Yes, this week I didn't sing and she actually said she missed it because she gets her cues from me. I stopped it because it looks daft me mouthing but not with a mic in front of me.

close2u

HAL9000 said:

Listening again to your band and particularly the singer, I reckon songs like Gladys Knight's Midnight Train to Georgia, or Percy Sledge's When a Man Loves a Woman could suit you very well.

A re-think on our set list is underway.

But, ultimately, she needs to be able to deliver.

close2u

@hotpickups

thanks

more bass would be good, shake the foundations, especially on the driving dance numbers

more movement too

close2u

geepers0677 said:

... To me the problem is the singer, ... there are more issues than confidence going on with that vocal - for me it's the use of the vibrato on any note longer than a second long, not knowing the words, notes are pitchy and shouty. 

Yes.

Totally agree.

How to have that awkward conversation and keep evreyone sweet?

close2u

Emp_Fab said:

IMO, the biggest problem with bands is not knowing what's wrong but getting the relevant members to listen, acknowledge and work on the weak points.  

Since we recorded these, all that we've heard back from our singer is, 'I need to learn my words'. 

Not one comment about pitch, phrasing, delivery etc.

Not one comment at all from our drummer either.

This is worrying.

Bass & I have both publicly aired our recognition of our weaknesses.

We did another recorded session this week.

Many songs in the first set were better.

The second set was mostly awful.

Could it also be a vocal stamina problem?

close2u

Has anyone successfully navigated such awkward conversations without band members quitting?

The bass player & I have been trying to shape a band for gigging since September 2013.

In its current line up since, we have been rehearsing once a week since September 2014.

6 months together.

The thought of starting all over again is a nightmare.

The thought of ditching wholesale all the songs our singer can't sing and learning new ones is a nightmare.

thomasross20

Emp_Fab said:

IMO, the biggest problem with bands is not knowing what's wrong but getting the relevant members to listen, acknowledge and work on the weak points.  So many people have huge ego issues - too big or too small, refuse to believe they are anything but perfect or crumble at the slightest hint of constructive criticism.  It's a pain in the arse.  I think the Germans have got the right approach to improving things; 'Helmut, your drumming is not in time - you should practice at home with a metronome', 'Ya, Gunter, you are correct, I will work harder on my timings'.  Over here that would be "Geoff, if you don't mind me giving a little constructive criticism, in one or two songs, you're drifting a little with the timing - not much mind, the rest of your drumming is fine... great actually...  it's just these one or two spots.  Just an idea, tell me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs though, but would practising at home with a metronome be any use to you ?" 

"My timing's fine ! - if anyone needs to practice at home, it's you mate" / "Fuck you I quit".

In my current band, I've recently taken a step back from the role of 'musical director' because of the shit I was getting for it.  I've been accused of being too fussy, 'fiddling' with the gear all the time, taking too long to setup etc, when the reality, albeit from my perspective, is a) wanting us to all play the same version isn't being 'fussy', b) Adjusting the PA so everyone can hear each other without feedback and at sensible volumes, during rehearsals, isn't 'fiddling', it's 'trying to compensate for all the adjustments you're all making, and the singer's shit technique' - and rehearsal doesn't just mean rehearsing with my instrument, it also means polishing my mixing skills, because come the gigs, the only one who has any idea how the PA works is me, you're going to be standing there bleating 'I can't hear myself !', and c) As you have no idea what needs to plug into where, I end up doing it.  That's going to change though.

When you can hear that things can improve and you know you have the ability to achieve it, it's so frustrating to see people not grasp the nettle and accept constructive criticism for what it is.  ...and yes, I'm acutely aware of the irony in my post !

The Germans know how to do things right. 

close2u, unless you're wanting to quit your job and take over the world, I say let it slide. Be the best YOU can be and maybe other bands with better musos might try and cherry-pick you! I tell the other guys in my band if there's something wrong with a part but there's a threshold you don't go over (unless they're German lol).

lloyd

close2u said:

Has anyone successfully navigated such awkward conversations without band members quitting?

The bass player & I have been trying to shape a band for gigging since September 2013.

In its current line up since, we have been rehearsing once a week since September 2014.

6 months together.

The thought of starting all over again is a nightmare.

The thought of ditching wholesale all the songs our singer can't sing and learning new ones is a nightmare.

We're pretty brutal with each other:

"You're shit at bit A you need to practice it at home" 

It's fine in my band no drama's at all. people need to learn their bits and develop a thick skin. I couldn't work with a precious person too scared to criticise, I'd rather them walk.

hotpickups

close2u said:

Has anyone successfully navigated such awkward conversations without band members quitting?

The bass player & I have been trying to shape a band for gigging since September 2013.

In its current line up since, we have been rehearsing once a week since September 2014.

6 months together.

The thought of starting all over again is a nightmare.

The thought of ditching wholesale all the songs our singer can't sing and learning new ones is a nightmare.

It's difficult especially with us musicians being exceptionally sensitive There's no easy way but to say the truth. If one can't play or sing but think they can then maybe the song genre isn't right for them. That's why auditions are so key as a lot can come up for question and would save time and heart ache later on if they are detected later on. 

Feel the fear and do it anyway

Danny1969

You don't need to start again just need to keep going but be aware of your shortcomings and improve them as you go. Sometimes it's simply a question of not doing something that improves things ...... If I'm coaxing a dodgy drummer I tell em with fills less is more ect ..... Keep driving so your keeping me in time etc ..... There's are ways to sugar coat it

Once the drums are in time then balance every vocal nit pick with a compliment ....... Women will believe anything you tell em if it's laced in a compliment ..... Except the women on here of course they are cleverer than that

monquixote

I wouldn't quit or change lineup at this point you've put too much work in for that.

I'd try and get some charity festivals booked. They will have a sound guy and will probably only want 45 mins so you can focus on your best material. Being up in front of a live audience tends to focus people's attention.

close2u

Here are two new ones from this week.

Crazy is our first song, set 1.

Part time Lover is midway through set 2.

Thanks

monquixote

Crazy I would say you have the same issue of the "badum de diddly dum bum de dum dum badiddly dum" drum fills making it sound a bit messy. 

Singing wise I think it's not bad, but perhaps a bit over vibratoed. 

Part time lover I don't think the "ba ba bas" are really working. If it were me I'd do them on guitar either as well or instead of. 

The drums are a bit more restrained which is good, but on the original the hats are doing 16ths which gives it quite a different feel. 

Better than the previous clips IMO.

Col_Decker

Good enough mate. No more dress rehearsals, get yourselves a gig down the Dog & Duck and get playing to people

PolarityMan

geepers0677;528178" said:

hey, some echoes in the above posts to be honest, oddly timed drum fills etc.To me the problem is the singer, musically you guys are decent and I would def tap my feet standing at the bar of my local for sure, but at the risk of sounding brutal, there are more issues than confidence going on with that vocal - for me it's the use of the vibrato on any note longer than a second long, not knowing the words, notes are pitchy and shouty. Sometimes it is worth a singer having a couple of pro coaching sessions to line some stuff up. Most of us have done it with guitars at some point, maybe a few lessons to get started, and it's the same with the voice I reckon. I've been spoiled with our singer I guess, but we recently had to have a few awkward conversations with 3 of our 8, and now the band is 5 and better for it. The band though, def gig gig gig and it'll sound GREAT.Good luck bud!

That's what I felt too, i see a lot of cover bands that have sub standard singers basically because they're female and they think that's a draw so the rest of the band just lets it ride.

HAL9000

Tighter, plus the singer looks much more confident and on top of what's going on. Would probably agree that the drummer should simplify but that's it really. Much better. 

nickp

agreed.  get out and gig it.  

our first gig was three songs at an open mike night

then a charidee gig

then pub gigs

you are good enough from what I can hear - you will not embarrass yourselves and you'll entertain the punters.  Yes the musos in the audience and you'll want to get better but the rest of 'em will lap it up.  You'll start to "own" the songs more from a gig.  Your singer will get more confident as she feels the love from the crowd etc.  

Don't forget that probably being the "frontman/woman" and delivering the vocal is the hardest part, the most visible, and the most important to delivering a good gig - so maybe cut her some slack initially as she has the "balls" to do it; whilst knowing that there is an improvement path to be followed

If you record the gigs have a band discussion about what you would like to work at - a bit like learning the guitar small chunks make the difference so focus on one or two things and work on them - nail, and move on.  

and 100% try to encourage the singer to have singing lessons - we all take our instruments and learning seriously - there is no reason why the vocals should not.  Our first singer lasted a year avoiding lessons and full commitment (I even offered to fund them!!).  Our second singer is great.  

and there in is the other positive of being a gigging band.  when you are recruiting members you know what you are looking for, and it is easier to get quality musicians to audition if you have gigs lined up and they can see that you are a fun band to play with.

so yep - go gig