Lighter alternatives for my HRD ?

bandmaster188

Ta Da!

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee512/bandmaster188/s2882-small_4_wheeled_trolley_path_main-1000x1000_zpslcwug8eq.jpg

Babones

It makes me think of when I played bass in a band for a few years and i remember my Ampeg BA500 which weighed 95lbs/43kg. That was fun. Then eventually i got a 2x10 Aguilar cab (awesome) at 59lbs/26kg and an Orange 200 watt valve head, which then went down to a terror bass.

Blueingreen

When I played bass I mainly played through a Hartke 4 x10 which weighed 88lbs which I usually insisted on carrying on my todd despite being no-one's idea of a muscleman.  Until, that is, I managed to completely knacker my back getting it into the back seat of my car. Result18 months in therapy and back problems for life. That was the end of the macho bullshit and from then on I made sure I had help.

Every sympathy with the OP.  40lbs may not sound a lot but it's somewhat heavier than I want to lug around these days, especially if it involves stairs or distance. I'm looking to replace a 43lb 1x12 for the same reasons he is. A trolley is of limited value because most the difficult/risky points are not when you're lugging stuff you've already raised up over a flat, horizontal surface. It's getting it downstairs, upstairs, in and out of your car etc.  A trolley can actually increase the amount of bending and lifting which defeats the purpose.

ICBM

Blueingreen said:

When I played bass I mainly played through a Hartke 4 x10 which weighed 88lbs which I usually insisted on carrying on my todd despite being no-one's idea of a muscleman.  Until, that is, I managed to completely knacker my back getting it into the back seat of my car. Result18 months in therapy and back problems for life. That was the end of the macho bullshit and from then on I made sure I had help.

I understand. I know I joke about the weight of my amps but I'm very careful when I have to lift them. It's all about thinking ahead and never doing anything rushed or where you're in an awkward position. My Trem-o-verb (98lbs) is liftable on my own because it has good handles, and it's actually quite compact so I can lift it straight up with my arms and legs without bending my back. Even then I would never try to lift it at an angle, or try to get it in through a car door or anything like that - straight up only, and only into something like the boot of my car, which has no lip.

My Peavey bass combo (114lbs) is not liftable on my own without a major risk of injury, and I would never try. Its not just the extra 16lbs, it's the shape - it's much more of a cube and there's no way of lifting it straight up without the centre of gravity being too far away from me which would mean bending my back. So that is a two-person lift, always.

So I can actually understand that for some people 40lbs might be quite heavy, especially if you have to lift it with one hand so the weight is all at one side.

thomasross20

So I'm not the only one ! My Blackstar is 24kg - I'm thinkinking I must have it wrong because a HRD looks a lot heavier. 

Thankfully I only lug mine to gigs... which isn't TOO often!

crunchman

We did a manual handling course at work.  If you can carry something in front of your stomach close to your body it's a lot better than carrying it off to one side.  I've actually carried bass amps that in some ways were better than an HRD because they had carry handles on each side so you could carry it in a better position.

ICBM said:

You don't need a head and cab to keep it light - in fact, since a head and cab contains slightly more wood than a combo, it will end up heavier for the same spec. Most of the weight of an average combo is in the cabinet.

A pine-cabinet Tweed Deluxe type amp is remarkably light, although it will also probably be more expensive than a HRD as well as not quite as loud.

That's why I mentioned the Lazy J above.  With the 6L6 power valves rather than 6V6 and the Celestion Blue it's can get reasonably loud as well - probably more than double the clean volume of a traditional Tweed Deluxe.  If you  get the reverb option it adds weight but as the OP says he never uses reverb then get it without and it's really light.

One more thought.  If you don't use reverb, would the amp continue to function if you took the reverb tank out?  It wouldn't be a massive weight saving but it would make it a bit lighter.

Emp_Fab

EricTheWeary said:

As the Emp is also an unfit 50 year old man if he can't lift his HRD I'm suprised he can play a gig standing up with an 8lb peice of wood hanging around his neck. 

Right you lot, I've had enough of this  :>  The logistics of me getting my gear to a gig / rehearsal involves carrying all my gear down a flight of stairs in the house (my music room is upstairs), out the door (right angle in a narrow hallway), in the car, out of the car, into the venue, then all again in reverse.  Carrying a HRD up and down stairs is a struggle.  I'm 51 next month, three years post heart attack, my right ankle was fucked in a motorbike crash in the 90's and I'm going to see the physio this afternoon about my left ankle which has started giving me serious gyp.  I'm overweight, unfit and actually getting mild palpitations in my ticker as I type this (it's been playing up for a few weeks now - I get them when I get to the top of the stairs, without an amp).  I might get it checked out this week actually.

Anyways.....    it turns out you're right.  It's a miracle I can hold a guitar....  but I've always got the mic stand I can use as support.

GuyBoden

Has anyone checked these Matrix amps?
http://uk.matrixamplification.com/guitar-amps/vb800.html

1.8kg or about 4lb in old money.

Cabicular

My Stock answer is Two Rock here but they aint cheap

Bluguitar1 and a decent 1x12?

ICBM

crunchman said:

That's why I mentioned the Lazy J above.  With the 6L6 power valves rather than 6V6 and the Celestion Blue it's can get reasonably loud as well - probably more than double the clean volume of a traditional Tweed Deluxe.

You could fit a neodymium speaker - since even the Blue isn't that light - I would normally say they don't make a substantial difference because you're only saving a few pounds in a fairly heavy amp, but in a Tweed Deluxe the percentage difference starts to become significant. They're usually pretty efficient too.

crunchman said:

One more thought.  If you don't use reverb, would the amp continue to function if you took the reverb tank out?  It wouldn't be a massive weight saving but it would make it a bit lighter.

Yes, but not significant - only about a pound even with the bag, I think. You can safely take the tank out of a HRD because it's solid-state-driven, but don't assume that's so with all Fenders or other valve amps with reverb - although you can always pull the reverb drive valve as well, which then makes it safe.

ROOG

Custom carbon fibre/kevlar cabinet?

I bet it would sound dire mind.

Blueingreen

Emp_Fab said:

EricTheWeary said:

As the Emp is also an unfit 50 year old man if he can't lift his HRD I'm suprised he can play a gig standing up with an 8lb peice of wood hanging around his neck. 

Right you lot, I've had enough of this  :>  The logistics of me getting my gear to a gig / rehearsal involves carrying all my gear down a flight of stairs in the house (my music room is upstairs), out the door (right angle in a narrow hallway), in the car, out of the car, into the venue, then all again in reverse.  

Similar for me except my house is slightly elevated from the road so once I've got the thing down one flight of stair, out the door and along the path I have another short flight of stairs to contend with.  A trolley or wheels would serve no practical purpose in getting my amp from upstairs room to car.  I also find rehearsal rooms, at least around here, tend to have remarkably poor access - long distances from car to room, steep stairs, rough pathways that won't allow the use of wheels etc.  I realise that's not their fault - it's a reflection of the fact they need cheap premises to be viable - but it does mean I end up taking pot luck with whatever amp they provide when, following a long lay-off from playing, what I really want to do is get familiar with the gear I'll actually be using on a gig.  And of course once the gigs do start, plenty of venues have poor access/steep stairs etc.

ESBlonde

OK so I too have an HRD and as it's my backup it lives upstairs and it is a bit of a struggle up a narrow stairway so I have some sympathy with the Emp here. As someone else said hugging it to the chest is preferable.
But the next serious options are going to be the lower powered princeton which is more expensive but quite beautiful sounding or in my experience the rather nice Roland Cube series in the 'black face' setting.
I am not a great fan of digital and often find that after a period of time the artifices of digital guitar sound can be tiring, I found the Cubes to be less so. Very light.
I tried the older styling with the word Roland on the front like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Roland-CUBE-60-COSM-Amp-/321693012117?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4ae665d095
Current styling has Cube on the grill.

Worth a look see.

EricTheWeary

GuyBoden said:

Has anyone checked these Matrix amps?
http://uk.matrixamplification.com/guitar-amps/vb800.html

1.8kg or about 4lb in old money.

calling @photek . A Fender flavoured version rumoured to be in the works,which would be a more obvious replacement for an HRD.

meltedbuzzbox

for a second there I thought you said a HRD 1x12 was a heavy amp

#BigGirlsBlouse 

Pete24v

As already mentioned, check out some Neo speakers. I put a pair of Jensen Neo's in my old Twin and it drastically reduced the weight.

impmann

TBH, I'm very concerned about the weight of amps due to my back injury - and so far I haven't found anything lighter than sounds as good or is as inexpensive as a HRD for those sorts of cleans.

I have a ZT Lunchbox that I gig *A LOT* in conjunction with a lightweight Montage cab - whilst it won't go near the Fender for depth of cleans, its got a pleasant sound and with a few pedals, its a mighty gig-monster.

noisepolluter

If you want to keep the spangly fender valve clean - assuming massive headroom isn't needed - then Fender do make the 65 DRRI as a head. The combo is also a few (but not many!) Lbs lighter than the hotrod deluxe, and it is a bit smaller, which might make it more conveniently heftable. The Jensen c12k speaker has a thumping great magnet, you could probably shave another pound or so off with a different speaker and still keep the same sound.
Of course there's always the 68 deluxe reverb custom combo which is cheaper new, although possibly not as many available second hand right now, and not available as a head.
I will also say that I was tremendously impressed by the 65 reissue Princeton I tried recently -awesome twang and bluesy growl in a tiny box, with fantastic reverb and trem. Some folks have reported that they go a bit harsh and ratty when cranked, I'm guessing this may have a lot to do with the speaker, but again you could replace it with something a bit fatter sounding, and some folks even manage to stick a 12 incher in there.

thisisguitar

I'd be tempted to get it chopped. That way you could have pine cabinets made so it'll be lighter again. As someone already said, two moderate lifts versus one heavy one.

I'm yet to have my Twin done, and I'm not looking forward to carrying down the steel steps at my house this summer… in fact if it rains I'm not taking it!

Blueingreen

Since I've been on a similar - and so far inconclusive - hunt for a very lightweight amp this is a summary of my thoughts to date:

Solid State: I bought a ZT Club.  Volume/weight ratio is terrific, easily giggable at 24lbs.  I find the tone a bit lacking in character but with a pre-amp pedal like a Tech 21 Blonde I you can get really nice characterful cleans and use pedals to get decent solo sounds.  Downsides:  I prefer to get my dirt from the amp, more a control thing than a tone thing;  I haven't yet found a pedal that gives a good crunchy Petty/Stonesy sound - to be fair I haven't tried that many but I have tried some obvious ones; it doesn't quite "feel" like a tube amp - I find it a little stiff and unforgiving although to be fair I think that about some well-regarded "clean platform" tube amps as well.

Taking price/performance/convenience into account, I think the Club a good value-solution that would work for many looking for a lightweight pedal platform.  There's a bit of sonic compromise, but I doubt the audience will know the difference.

I'm happy with it as a back-up but I'd really like something a bit more refined as my main amp. I'm interested in whether the Quilter/Roland Blues Cube/BluGuitar will give some of the same advantages as the ZT with fewer compromises and I'm looking out for feedback from people who've gigged these.

Lightweight Valve Combo:  my main issue with most is concern about volume/clean headroom.  I'm old school and just don't have confidence an amp in the 12-18 watt range will cut it on a gig if micing up isn't an option. Experience might change that. More powerful valve combos do come up at around the 35lb mark - some of the Redplates, Alessandro Working Dog - but they tend to be rare, expensive and lack UK suppliers.  Wouldn't rule out picking up one of these if they come up but I'm not holding my breath.

Head and small cab:  there are some very lightweight heads around but if you're looking for 30+ watts you again tend to be looking at rare/expensive.  For example Jackson Ampworks NewCastle 30 weighs 25lbs.  If you are willing to go to the 29-35 lb range then the Suhr Badger, some of the Dr Zs and Two Rocks come within range (whether they are in range of your wallet is another issue).  There are obviously cheaper makes but I've usually found I either don't like sound-clips or there's a reputed issue with reliability, or both. I also have a strong preference for easy to dial in, which makes me wary of Mesa, who have some nice lightweight heads.