Your PA

koneguitarist

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/bargoedboy/image.jpg1_zps186xwap1.jpg ;

This was a gig that we did this weekend, with two Mackie Subs which I borrowed, and my two RCF 10" tops. Monitors was the same small WD units that I use everywhere, as band doesn't need to be any louder on stage, in a small venue or a large venue. 

Not one complaint, that no one could hear us, in fact we were considered possibly the band with best sound of the weekend. 

Band before us had about 7-8 12" monitors across front of stage, subs and tops, yet sounded awful. 

Interesting point made by FirePaulMusic who was there, he said too often bands are trying to play to people right at back of room, and then being too loud for those at the front. 

I tend to think if you play quieter the audience don't back away from you but stay close, and you get a better atmosphere. Sure I could have borrowed or hired in a huge rig, which would have taken an hour or two to set up and sound check, but that's in a perfect world. We were on late as band before us played up to 9pm which was also our starting time. We were still on after removing other band and their gear, setting up our own PA and soundcheck was first song, Paul gave me the nod if I was loud enough on my Excelsior through PA, and we were going before 9:30pm, another advantage of knowing your own Pa. 

hywelg

thomasross20 said:

I know what you're saying, honestly I do... I'm struggling to get them to commit more than £50 as it is thought!

Half tempted to pay for the whole thing myself but stuff that!

That was the problem I found with my first band. Nobody thought we needed one, that we could always borrow stuff and nobody thought it was their responsibility to put their hands in their pocket. It was about as much as i could do to get the bass player to buy his own monitor and I ended up fetching it for him. I ended up putting this lot together myself

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/35063/full-pa-for-sale-very-comprehensive-setup#latest

, simply so if we were offered a gig would could commit as soon as we knew everyone was available. Problem prior to that was trying to beg a loan of one.

I would caution against a shared ownership. By all means have individuals own individual items but dont put money in a pot to buy it. Someone will leave and then you'll have bigger problems.

mike257

I've left a band with shared ownership of PA, it wasn't complicated at all. We worked out what we'd spent on shared kit, knocked a little bit off for depreciation and I was paid my share of the value. Didn't cause any bother. I guess it's only difficult if people decide to make it difficult.

firepaulmusic

koneguitarist said:

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/bargoedboy/image.jpg1_zps186xwap1.jpg ;

This was a gig that we did this weekend, with two Mackie Subs which I borrowed, and my two RCF 10" tops. Monitors was the same small WD units that I use everywhere, as band doesn't need to be any louder on stage, in a small venue or a large venue. 

Not one complaint, that no one could hear us, in fact we were considered possibly the band with best sound of the weekend. 

Band before us had about 7-8 12" monitors across front of stage, subs and tops, yet sounded awful. 

Interesting point made by FirePaulMusic who was there, he said too often bands are trying to play to people right at back of room, and then being too loud for those at the front. 

I tend to think if you play quieter the audience don't back away from you but stay close, and you get a better atmosphere. Sure I could have borrowed or hired in a huge rig, which would have taken an hour or two to set up and sound check, but that's in a perfect world. We were on late as band before us played up to 9pm which was also our starting time. We were still on after removing other band and their gear, setting up our own PA and soundcheck was first song, Paul gave me the nod if I was loud enough on my Excelsior through PA, and we were going before 9:30pm, another advantage of knowing your own Pa. 

The band with the second best sound of the weekend! ;-0

koneguitarist

firepaulmusic said:

koneguitarist said:

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/bargoedboy/image.jpg1_zps186xwap1.jpg ;

This was a gig that we did this weekend, with two Mackie Subs which I borrowed, and my two RCF 10" tops. Monitors was the same small WD units that I use everywhere, as band doesn't need to be any louder on stage, in a small venue or a large venue. 

Not one complaint, that no one could hear us, in fact we were considered possibly the band with best sound of the weekend. 

Band before us had about 7-8 12" monitors across front of stage, subs and tops, yet sounded awful. 

Interesting point made by FirePaulMusic who was there, he said too often bands are trying to play to people right at back of room, and then being too loud for those at the front. 

I tend to think if you play quieter the audience don't back away from you but stay close, and you get a better atmosphere. Sure I could have borrowed or hired in a huge rig, which would have taken an hour or two to set up and sound check, but that's in a perfect world. We were on late as band before us played up to 9pm which was also our starting time. We were still on after removing other band and their gear, setting up our own PA and soundcheck was first song, Paul gave me the nod if I was loud enough on my Excelsior through PA, and we were going before 9:30pm, another advantage of knowing your own Pa. 

The band with the second best sound of the weekend! ;-0

Yep, you were a good 2nd though Paul, way ahead of Storm !

Danny1969

I did a dep gig was Friday for another band in a pub .....  and they used 3 X 1.8KW amps in a rack with 2 X 18" bins and 2 X Mid  /  horns consisting of 3 X 12" per cabinet  and one large compression driver horn per side. Every mic was split so the drummer could mix his own cans via his own 24 channel desk beside the drums. There was more power in the 4 x wedges than most bands use FOH

So I don't feel so excessive myself now  

mike257

Bloody hell! I love a big rig but even I leave it at home for a little pub gig. There's a time and a place. In a pub I'm quite content with a decent pair of tops and maybe one sub, and a wedge or two for singers, and having an easy load in/out. If you're on functions and corporate stuff then it's time to get the big guns out but not down the Dog & Duck on a Friday night!

ICBM

If that pub was smaller than one of those huge Wetherspoons they make out of old cinemas, that sounds *way* over the top to me...

jpfamps

In most pubs an un-amplified acoustic drum kit is too loud..........

koneguitarist

jpfamps;631009" said:

In most pubs an un-amplified acoustic drum kit is too loud..........

Agreed!

firepaulmusic

Maybe just a little kick to add a bit of weight to the band...

jpfamps

firepaulmusic said:

Maybe just a little kick to add a bit of weight to the band...

NOOOOOOOO.

ICBM

firepaulmusic said:

Maybe just a little kick to add a bit of weight to the band…

*Only* if you have subs. And generally only if the kick just isn't very good in the first place. And even then only very little.

firepaulmusic

jpfamps said:

firepaulmusic said:

Maybe just a little kick to add a bit of weight to the band...

NOOOOOOOO.

Sorry boys but I disagree, you can even get some kick into your tops and it makes all the difference to the feel of a band, even in a pub setting.

koneguitarist

It does depend on your personal choice, I very rarely put kick drum through PA, even though my drummer is fairly quiet.

Mainly because he has a good balanced sound, if I raise one part of that, I am changing his balance.

Snares are loud and cymbals cut through, by micing up one area, you are often making an excuse for band to play louder. 

Part of the reason @firepaulmusic likes bass drum louder is using backing track for a long time, where you hear everything fully mixed, I found it the same after using a drum machine for about 5 years in late 80's early 90's. Took me a while to get used to not hearing bass drum so prominently. 

Everyone has a different idea of the perfect mix, but I prefer to use the PA to reinforce sound of the band and not create a sound for the band. 

John_A

We nearly always mic the kick, really ties the sound together IMO

ICBM

koneguitarist said:

Everyone has a different idea of the perfect mix, but I prefer to use the PA to reinforce sound of the band and not create a sound for the band. 

+1

The reasons I don't like putting any kick through the tops - even ones with 15s, which I don't like anyway - are because it can draw enough power from the amp to make it more difficult to get a good volume for everything else (extreme lows are very power-hungry) - and especially with smaller tops which will need really a lot of extra power to get deep lows out of them you will be really running the whole system much harder; and because even though lows are not very directional, having the kick drum coming out of cabs that are up high just sounds wrong to me.

But since the kick is often the weakest part of an average drum kit, I do think putting a little of it through subs can be useful. Most punters are so used to hearing mixed music with emphasised lows that a live band can often sound a bit thin without it.

Danny1969

The sound of a modern kick extends to 5k or more so putting the kick through just subs which are low passed around 100 hz or so would be pointless

But so much of this is dependent on the style of music you play, whever you use ears or not ..... There's no one rule suits everybody

ICBM

Danny1969 said:

The sound of a modern kick extends to 5k or more so putting the kick through just subs which are low passed around 100 hz or so would be pointless

You hear the higher frequencies quite well though - it's the low-end that can sound a bit weak compared to a recorded kick.

Danny1969 said:

But so much of this is dependent on the style of music you play, whever you use ears or not ..... There's no one rule suits everybody

Very true.