Endorsements ... do you care?

OilCityPickups

GavC said:

Hello, newbie alert

OK - as the Artist Liaison Manager for JHS (Fret-King and Vintage) I thought I'd respond to a few of the comments on here

1) No-one know who their endorsees are.

Gordon Gitrap, Quireboys, Saxon, Bonafide, Procul Harum, Midge Ure, Big Country, Mamas Boys, John Parr, Jerry Donahue, Queensryche, UFO, not to mention guitarists from Robbie Williams and Rod Stewarts bands - is everyone on here under 25? ;-)

I'll be the first to admit that a lot of them are not exactly, ahem, household names or currently topping the charts, and sure, I'd love Steve Vai or Synester Gates to take shine to our guitars but as far as I'm concerned the fact that the guys above are are happy to go out and play to audiences of between 200 and 30,000 people using our sub £500 guitars says a hell of a lot more than people who take their £2k signature models out...and we show our appreciation by including them in our adverts - something you never see the 'big two' companies do - yes, I know they don't need the publicity because they have 60 years of history doing their marketing for them 

2) Apart from signature artists, no-one gets a free guitar, they get a discount. Please note before you send me an email ;-)

3) 'Oh the signature models are just stock guitars with a pickup change' Absolutely untrue. Point me a guitar in the Fret-King range that has nearly the same spec as the Giltrap, Donahue, Colwell or Whitehorn models. With Vintage its a different matter because its usually based on that artists fave guitar. But you know the only reason we are still stuck with such very familiar designs is because you guys (guitarists) are such a conservative bunch! (Back to the 60 years of history as a marketing tool again)  

I don't have any hard or fast rules on who we will work with. I try to get younger unheard bands/players on board if they look interesting or like they might be going places. Often these guys are already playing one of our guitars, which is what I look for. I also take on a lot of studio/session players as long as they are working with a few names.

I get loads of emails asking for endorsement, most of which are just angling for free stuff and don't come back once they realise they wont get it for nothing. A lot of requests are just ridiculous - 

"Hi, I'm Jack and I've been playing guitar for 6 months, if you give me a guitar once I get in a band I will tell everyone how great your guitars are at our gigs"

Dont laugh this actually happens - kids today are so mesmerised by the endorser thing that they approach the whole system arse about face!

So back to the original thread, do I think endorsements work? Of course they do (he says in a moment of enlightened self interest for his job) - I'm not suggesting that you will go out and buy that particular guitarists model just because you've seen an ad, but it certainly helps with the whole brand awareness and gives people a degree of faith in the brand if they know certain people are working with them.

OK thats it. Happy hunting!

Okay ... interesting ... we have a representative of a company we used to call when I owned my music shop: Jolly Hitler and Satan for their unpleasant restrictive attitude to small music shops. Ooooo I shall have to try sooooooo hard not to wind you up mate ... but welcome ... (sound of knife being sharpened off screen).

mike_l

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Okay ... interesting ... we have a representative of a company we used to call when I owned my music shop: Jolly Hitler and Satan for their unpleasant restrictive attitude to small music shops. Ooooo I shall have to try sooooooo hard not to wind you up mate ... but welcome ... (sound of knife being sharpened off screen).

Calm down, or you'll become Vim Mk2

GavC

Not for nothing did I sign off with 'Happy Hunting' :-)

OilCityPickups

Sorry was my poisonous hate for the 'old guard' of musical instrument wholesalers showing?  I'll try and conceal it better.

GavC

ToneControl;63375" said:

I just think the full page Vintage ads look like ads when I were a lad, and most of the guys in them are pros even older than me who are holding a lower-price guitar - when you know they must own plenty of pro onesMy guess is the ads would possibly appeal to someone returning to playing guitar in their 40s who wanted a budget copy of a classic. Is that the intention?

Hmm, must take issue with the 'pro-ones' comment - I assume you meant 'more expensive' ;-)

Yes they all own much more expensive guitars but I quite happy to use our less expensive ones because they a) trust them b) don't have a nervous breakdown flying them around the world c) and are quite happy in their own skin to be seen with a brand like Vintage and not worry what their friends might say...

Yes, we have a lot of returning players (and I'm a Vintage payer in his 40's) who like the classic looks, but also a huge amount of kids who aspire to the big names but don't have a cat in hells chance of affording them.

I take a lot of pride in the fact that these returning players, youngster and endorsers alike are able to get a great playing, great sounding well made guitar at a fraction of the cost, and the one returning comment over and over again is 'I tried this against my 1985 whatever, and I couldn't tell difference"

GavC

NEVER could get hang of the quote thing in these forums.....

monquixote

GavC said:

NEVER could get hang of the quote thing in these forums.....

You aren't the only one. 

I think one of our members has a Vintage endorsement, but I can't remember who. 

digitalscream

monquixote said:

GavC said:

NEVER could get hang of the quote thing in these forums.....

You aren't the only one. 

I think one of our members has a Vintage endorsement, but I can't remember who. 

...paging @IanSavage

mudslide73

I've nearly pulled the trigger on a less wacky Fretking more than once. The Super T / S is a cracking guitar for the money. I think we're all a bit put off by the re-sale value (basically can't give them away). We are a conservative bunch but knowing Geoff Whitehorn plays one doesn't make any difference. As you say 60 years of classic recordings from the big two is better than any endorsement deal.

GavC

Absolutley.

mudslide73 said

As you say 60 years of classic recordings from the big two is better than any endorsement deal.

Absolutley - Slash plays one because Kossof plays one because Clapton plays one because Les Paul played one. Hard to fight that kind of history. 

Don't forget if you do own an LP you actively are loving a signature model...

GavC

Yes Ian Savage was already playing a Vintage bass.

JayGee

mudslide73 said:

I've nearly pulled the trigger on a less wacky Fretking more than once. The Super T / S is a cracking guitar for the money. I think we're all a bit put off by the re-sale value (basically can't give them away). We are a conservative bunch but knowing Geoff Whitehorn plays one doesn't make any difference. As you say 60 years of classic recordings from the big two is better than any endorsement deal.

I covet what's surely the wackiest thing in the Fret King catalog deeply and fervently. If #GavC feels that a 50-something Software Engineer banging out Punk, Ska, and '80s ElectroPop on the Essex/Suffolk pub circuit is going to help shift a warehouse full of Venturas...

http://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/images/Guitarist/367/fret-king-ventura-630-80.jpg

...then I'm his man :-)

impmann

In another life I have to manage a repair team. You wouldn't believe the grief you get from "up and coming" bands and their nasty-piece-of-work managers. In my experience its these guys that try their utmost to weasel out of paying repair bills by lying, or by resorting to near blackmail. So far not one of these guys have become a household name.
On the other hand, I have had the pleasure of dealing with some true legends of rock music who have been nothing but professional. Even in some really awkward situations - such as a screwdriver slip on the back of a guitar... I won't say who's guitar for professional reasons but when told of the accident, they just thanked me for the honesty and told me not to worry "accidents happen and it's just a tool".
As for endorsement making me buy something - well, I always am interested in how a guitarist arrives at their tone and that might inspire me to check out a particular piece of kit but not rush out and buy it. For example- I love gilmour's playing but I'd never buy his signature Stat as I could build one using similar parts (right down to the vintage body) for less.
I also think musos aren't as stupid as the marketing people that come up with these things. Eg we're all bored of Bonamasa sig guitars. Give him any Gibbo style guitar and he sounds the same anyway!!!

OilCityPickups

impmann said:

.... I also think musos aren't as stupid as the marketing people that come up with these things. Eg we're all bored of Bonamasa sig guitars. Give him any Gibbo style guitar and he sounds the same anyway!!!

I think you are absolutely right ... most musos can sus the delicate whiff of male bovine excrement ... some of us then chose to go along with it ... but I think most of know when something is sincere or not.
For the record, GavC I use a Vintage V100 as a pickup demonstrator ... and occasionally as a gigging instrument myself, so personally I have no beef with the Vintage brand.

ICBM

GavC said:

Don't forget if you do own an LP you actively are loving a signature model...

Hardly, unless it's a Les Paul Personal. (Which is like a Recording only even further from what we think of as a 'Les Paul'.)

The last recognisably standard 'Les Paul' that Les Paul played was the '54-style Custom, and even then his was quite different from the production version.

ToneControl

GavC said:

NEVER could get hang of the quote thing in these forums.....

I don't object to the choice of endorsees, although you could use more variety in age (ironic since I usually criticise when only 20 year olds are being featured in anything in the media), I think the ads could be improved - typically they include 6-7 black and white studio photos of Pros, and the ads look quite dated compared to other ads in Guitarist (I am assuming this is a small enough forum that you are OK to get feedback here, although I wasn't expecting you)

The text in the ads doesn't say "I have a 59 LP at home but I play this live because xyz..." instead, just the normal "This guitar is ace because it has A B C technical features. "

I'd just prefer the ads with more live photos - maybe one artist per ad, and explain why they are an adequate substitute for an old Pro's favourite guitar. With just posed studio shots, it runs the risk of appearing as if the group of veterans just get paid to send a photo in.

 

OilCityPickups

ToneControl said:

GavC said:

NEVER could get hang of the quote thing in these forums.....

I don't object to the choice of endorsees, although you could use more variety in age (ironic since I usually criticise when only 20 year olds are being featured in anything in the media), I think the ads could be improved - typically they include 6-7 black and white studio photos of Pros, and the ads look quite dated compared to other ads in Guitarist (I am assuming this is a small enough forum that you are OK to get feedback here, although I wasn't expecting you)

The text in the ads doesn't say "I have a 59 LP at home but I play this live because xyz..." instead, just the normal "This guitar is ace because it has A B C technical features. "

I'd just prefer the ads with more live photos - maybe one artist per ad, and explain why they are an adequate substitute for an old Pro's favourite guitar. With just posed studio shots, it runs the risk of appearing as if the group of veterans just get paid to send a photo in.

 

 +1 to that. As I say, I actually have nothing but praise for the Vintage brand ... save for the odd duff machine head. I agree with 'tone control' that the style of the ads is horribly out of date and badly conceived.
Particularly as far as 'Vintage' as a brand is concerned I think your current ads probably harm your products reputation and credibility rather than help. That's sad, as I rather like Vintage as a brand and as a product ethos, but if you give a bunch of clueless 'suits' a good idea, we all know how easy it is for them to to f--k it up entirely  
Oh I also love these ... as an interesting take on the Firebird theme

ChrisMusic

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Oh I also love these ... as an interesting take on the Firebird theme

Big +1 to that, on a theme but different, love the 3x P90 version too.

Shame about the "clueless 'suits' ", but they are in every walk of life and almost every business, just doing the day job without any passion or any real involvement I guess.  I am generalising, but that prevalent attitude is an object lesson on how to kill a business from the inside, just look at Kodak !

ICBM

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Oh I also love these ... as an interesting take on the Firebird theme

I've always thought of it more as a Jazzmaster crossed with a Reverse Flying V .

(OK, I can see the Firebird elements too .)

GavC

Thank you for all your kind comments and feedback. Can I just check is it specifically the Vintage endorser ads we are talking about here? Because we have a similar theme for the Fret-King Black Label Artist models?

Excuse my ignorance but how do I attach a pic? It keeps asking for a URL?