The cricket thread

Heartfeltdawn

Nice, I'll pick up a copy of that for the collection. 

Heartfeltdawn

One story that has been under the radar this week thanks to Cardiff has been the proposed black armband protest by John Mooney. A classic piece of ICC madness ensued:

https://twitter.com/andrewnixon79/status/618841583321006080

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJZ85gXWIAAIqQX.jpg:large

It does make you wonder how the ICC would have handled things like the Black Power salutes at the Olympics

Gassage

Word came back from me that during the test, as Root walking into bat, Shane Watson bellowed "Here he is, the Virgin Choir Boy"

To which Root replied "That's why thay call you Watto, not Witto."

Brilliant.

crunchman

Not quite as good as Eddo's biscuit one though.

scrumhalf

Not the greatest of starts today.

camf

LOL! No wicket in that entire session and now both batsmen in three figures... tough, tough day for the bowlers.

Heartfeltdawn

What a beautiful day to bat. A bit of movement early on in the air but a great pace to bat. Not quick enough to test the batsmen but enough pace to give you value for money with your shots. Australia will set their stall on 600+.

There is a worry with Stokes. England haven't figured out how best to use him. All the talk has been about Moeen's place in the side with the ball. When you compare their test records since the start of the West Indies series right up to the end of play today, it makes for interesting reading.

Moeen: 6 Test, 17 wickets at 39.41

Stokes: 7 Tests, 8 wickets at 82.37. 

If people can question Moeen's position as lead spinner, then it is also right to question whether Stokes is currently bowling well enough to be considered as fourth seamer. Today he didn't look happy at all. I'm not advocating that he be dropped but he needs some wickets. 

One fascinating moment came when Steve Smith hit Joe Root for six. The bat turned in his hand and ended up pointing at point when the shot was viewed via the stump camera. That shows how the modern enlarged sweet spot helps a batsman. It was seen quite a few times in the World Cup. Modern bats don't hit the ball further but they are easier to hit with. 

http://c.files.bbci.co.uk/0119/production/_84318200_smith_six_getty.jpg

crunchman

I think Stokes has got the raw end of a few of the drops - like Bell's yesterday.  He also tends to get called on when batsmen are well set and doesn't get to use the new ball.  He's better than the figures suggest.  I'm not saying he's not got room to improve but he's fine as a fourth seamer. Before Swann retired we only played 3 seamers anyway.

On current form he is worth his place in the side as a batsmen at 6.  If you drop Stokes for an extra batsman then, on his recent form, you are not going to gain much with the bat and you would weaken the bowling.  If you were to leave Stokes out and play someone like Finn or Plunkett you might find one of the seamers wouldn't bowl much, and you weaken both the fielding and the batting.

Heartfeltdawn

In 2009, the only time we played three seamers (Broad, Anderson, and Flintoff) was at Cardiff as England went with two spinners. Every other game, some variation of four seamers with Flintoff, Harmison, and Onions all ducking in and out depending on fitness along with Broad and Anderson. In 2010-11 we had three seamers and Swann but we were playing against the worst Australian side since the mid 1980s. That Watson-Hughes-Khawaja top three from the 5th Test looks painful even now. 

This Australian side are a lot better than the 2010-11 side. 

I wasn't suggesting that Stokes should be dropped but it made for an interesting comparison. Moeen has come in for a lot of criticism for being ineffective and nobody has said that about Stokes. 

crunchman

I think it's the role they are playing.  Moeen is in the side as the main spinner so people are looking at his bowling numbers.  In a way his batting is a bonus.  Stokes is very much the number four seamer who is in the side to bat 6.

Like it or not I don't think this is very far away from our strongest side.  We don't seem to have any fast bowlers consistently bowling 90mph plus who are demanding a place.  Bairstow would improve the fielding and might improve the batting, but Ballance and Bell both made runs in the previous test.

A proper keeper might be an improvement given the depth of the batting.  Buttler probably cost us the last test against the Windies with that missed stumping at 4 down.  It's probably only a matter of time before he does something similar again.  Moeen at 7 and James Foster at 8 would still be a deep batting line up, and a massive improvement with the gloves.

It would be harsh on Buttler to drop him though.  His keeping is improving, and he does offer something with his batting.  Part of his problem is that he's learning on the job.  When he was at Somerset they preferred Kieswetter with the gloves (why I don't know) so he had very little experience keeping in the first class game.  As he gains experience he will improve.

Ultimately any changes to the current side would probably be marginal calls, and I can understand why they have picked the side they have.

crunchman

Given Sunday's weather forecast, England just have to get to 367 to kill the game.

Heartfeltdawn

crunchman said:

I think it's the role they are playing.  Moeen is in the side as the main spinner so people are looking at his bowling numbers.  In a way his batting is a bonus.  Stokes is very much the number four seamer who is in the side to bat 6.

Like it or not I don't think this is very far away from our strongest side.  We don't seem to have any fast bowlers consistently bowling 90mph plus who are demanding a place.  Bairstow would improve the fielding and might improve the batting, but Ballance and Bell both made runs in the previous test.

A proper keeper might be an improvement given the depth of the batting.  Buttler probably cost us the last test against the Windies with that missed stumping at 4 down.  It's probably only a matter of time before he does something similar again.  Moeen at 7 and James Foster at 8 would still be a deep batting line up, and a massive improvement with the gloves.

It would be harsh on Buttler to drop him though.  His keeping is improving, and he does offer something with his batting.  Part of his problem is that he's learning on the job.  When he was at Somerset they preferred Kieswetter with the gloves (why I don't know) so he had very little experience keeping in the first class game.  As he gains experience he will improve.

Ultimately any changes to the current side would probably be marginal calls, and I can understand why they have picked the side they have.

If we're going to have wickets like this all summer, then you need that fourth seamer to do a job and to trust the out and out batsmen to do their job and to score runs. We've essentially got three all-rounders from 6 to 8. I agree that it's all marginal calls but it might be that a marginal call wins you a series. 

The 'keeping rivalry has been there throughout most of Buttler's career. In the England U-19's, he wasn't always first choice with the gloves. Adam Wheater and Michael Bates (who is now at Somerset) were ahead of him. The U-19 World Cup saw him claim more time behind the stumps and he went up the order. At one point he was batting at the top of the order with Joe Root. 

Buttler is 24 years and 312 days old. Joe Root is 24 years and 199 days. Root has 14 first class centuries: Buttler has 4. Root has played 127 first class knocks, averages 50.79, and has scored 10,485 runs; Buttler has had 102 f-c innings, has scored 5329 runs, and averages 34. That's a poor figure taken at face value. When you look at the number of not out innings Buttler has had (27) versus Root (16), Buttler's stats at first class level are not an indicator of his ability. It's whether he can actually bring that ability out. I see why Somerset went with Kieswetter. He was scoring more heavily and there was little between them as keepers. 

I'm a Somerset fan and the last few seasons have not been good in terms of bringing through young players. A lot have been and gone, some have been treated very poorly, and there has been a tendency to bring in Kolpak players and those with EU passports. Three years ago George Dockrell was bowling beautifully. His progress has stalled completely at Somerset. I think Buttler was a victim of that poor young player development. I'm still of the mind that he could reach Pietersen levels if he focused purely on the batting. 

Gary Ballance's feet. Fucking 'ell. Definitely not going to be on Strictly Come Dancing when he retires. 

And Bell. Now then chaps, are we still sure about this Ballance and Bell partnership?

>:D<

Heartfeltdawn

crunchman said:

Given Sunday's weather forecast, England just have to get to 367 to kill the game.

It looks a bloody long way away at 29 for 3!

scrumhalf

Now Root's gone.

"3 out of the 4 have been very, very, very poot shots" - Boycs.

Rain, please. Lots of it. NOW!!!

Heartfeltdawn

scrumhalf said:

Now Root's gone.

"3 out of the 4 have been very, very, very poot shots" - Boycs.

Rain, please. Lots of it. NOW!!!

I'd actually planned to go down on Monday if it looked like being an exciting day 5. I think I can give up on that idea. 

@crunchman If Stokes pulls off a double century, he can bowl as many pies as he likes

jpttaylor

Not a clue what was going through their minds. This pitch is an absolute road and there's no excuse for at least 3 of those dismissals.

I hate to sound Boycott-esque, but at the very least, they needed discipline to stay at the crease for more than a few overs - it's only the second day and at this rate we're following on.

camf

Looks like Cook has everything under control... no need to worry about anything.
L-)

iseverynamegone

Scoreboard pressure but we can still draw from here..

scrumhalf

iseverynamegone said:

Scoreboard pressure but we can still draw from here..

Optimist of the year?

At the top of the order, Lyth, Ballance and Bell have done nothing to show any sort of consistent application of the type needed to save the match or win the series.

Heartfeltdawn

At least with England collapsing, it means Punter and the mob can shut up about what a rubbish pitch it is.