The cricket thread

iseverynamegone

If you have followed England you have to be optimistic over the years.

We bat deep enough to still avoid follow on. Unlikely but certainly possible. 50 for Stokes and Ali. 100 for Buttler and Cook. Top order been collapsing for last 12 months but we have often recovered ( admittedly against lesser bowling)

crunchman

Ballance has a real problem.  Carbon copy of the way he got out against Boult.  At the very least he needs to drop down from 3 so he can come in against a ball that isn't swinging as much.  Long term it might be better to send him back to Yorkshire and let him work on his game, and learn to come forward.

Admittedly not all sides have left armers of the quality of Boult, Starc and Johnson but Starc and Boult are likely to be around for several years to come - and Mohamed Amir might be back soon for Pakistan.

Agree there were some poor shots.  Lyth doesn't seem to have the discipline he needs at the moment, but given the lack of other options they might be better sticking with him and hoping he learns from it.

They need to bat time tomorrow and wear down the Mitches.  Even if they don't make the follow on figure they need them to have lots of overs in their legs to make the second innings easier. 

UnclePsychosis

Dunno who it was at the ECB who requested that utterly lifeless pitch but there's some fairly hefty karma coming their way if England lose this test.

Heartfeltdawn

Ballance looks like a walking wicket right now. His feet are moving less than Tresco's did when he was out of nick. In 2009 we had Bopara as the walking wicket for the first four Tests, Trott coming in at the Oval and scoring a memorable century. 

One wonders how long they will give Ballance and Bell. We can't have 3 of the top 4 in shitty nick. 

scrumhalf

Well, apart from Cook and Stokes that wasn't what you'd call stout resistance, was it?

Aussies will bat to get a lead of 400-450, or maybe until the drinks interval tomorrow afternoon? I don't think there's any nasty weather on the horizon to disrupt play, some showers around midday here (I'm a few miles north of Lords) but unless we develop a spine to our batting it'll be 1-1 which, to be fair, I would have taken at the start of the series.

Moe-mentum seems to be with the Aussies.

scrumhalf

Oh shit.

Lyth - why did you need to nibble at that one? Not evidence of a test match temperament. Goodbye, I think.

Heartfeltdawn

Our options are limited. People on Cricinfo talk about Hales coming in to open for Lyth. This is the same Hales who got tied down by legside deliveries by the mighty Indian seamers in the past. What makes folk think he'd do any better against the Mitchs and Hazlewood? 

Should never have gotten rid of Compton. 

Heartfeltdawn

Christ... 

scrumhalf

What a shower of shit. I knew that the Cardiff test was a flase flag, but I never expected this sort of spineless brainless capitulation at home.

To have failed to get past 50 without losing at least 3 wickets in so many innings this year is shocking.

axisus

Just looked at the score - FEKKIN pathetic. The England of old are back. They should hang their heads in shame, bunch of amateurs. I am honestly ashamed and glad I don't know any Aussies right now. Honestly, pack up and go home.

camf

Ooops! Scotland could do better than this!

Heartfeltdawn

Getting hammered usually happens in each series we've won. 1st Test at Lords in 2005, pretty convincingly hammered. 4th Test in 2009, lost by an innings. 3rd Test, 2010-11 at the WACA, we were never in the hunt. In each of those defeats, England were undone on a pitch that did offer a bit to the seamers. This pitch is different. The way we have capitulated is different. A combination of fear and weak mental approach has gotten us here. 

A big laugh at Andrew Sutherland for this article from 2012. 

Heartfeltdawn

Another Bairstow ton today...

iseverynamegone

Awful.

scrumhalf

Heartfeltdawn said:

Getting hammered usually happens in each series we've won. 1st Test at Lords in 2005, pretty convincingly hammered. 4th Test in 2009, lost by an innings. 3rd Test, 2010-11 at the WACA, we were never in the hunt. In each of those defeats, England were undone on a pitch that did offer a bit to the seamers. This pitch is different. The way we have capitulated is different. A combination of fear and weak mental approach has gotten us here. 

A big laugh at Andrew Sutherland for this article from 2012. 

Sadly, we've also got hammered and not won the series on the odd occasion too.

I'd get them all in tomorrow and make them bat for 90 overs in the nets. Just so that they know what's expected of them in the future. Such brain-dead batting deserves naughty-boy nets. So many pointless shots, so many pointless dismissals.

rocktron

I did not expect the match to finish today.

The pitch is not to blame. There was no intimidating short-pitched bowling where the ball reared up unexpectedly, but there was a lack of application by the batsmen.

I think chasing an intimidating total was the psychological factor against England.

I've never subscribed to wholesale changes, but England has to make at least one change, or reshuffle the batting order by moving the in-form players up the order. Don't forget that this is the same side which won in four days at Cardiff, so thay haven't suddenly become bad players.

This is a major setback, with the momentum now with the Aussies, but England now has to show the same fighting spirit the Aussies showed, in the next Test.

The groundsmen have to produce a "true pitch", and not one which would help the seamers, because we have been vulnerable to the Aussie quicks. 

Heartfeltdawn

scrumhalf said:

Sadly, we've also got hammered and not won the series on the odd occasion too.

I'd get them all in tomorrow and make them bat for 90 overs in the nets. Just so that they know what's expected of them in the future. Such brain-dead batting deserves naughty-boy nets. So many pointless shots, so many pointless dismissals.

Oh, absolutely. It's more the point that even our series victories against Australia have a Test where we fuck up enormously. Naughty boy nets would be completely worthless. They're not going to be in those nets facing 90mph left arm quick bowlers. Sending them in for nets would be a throwback to the bad old days of 1989 (and in 1989 we'd have been overjoyed going into the Third Test at 1-1).   

octatonic

He. He. He.

Heartfeltdawn

rocktron said:

I've never subscribed to wholesale changes, but England has to make at least one change, or reshuffle the batting order by moving the in-form players up the order. Don't forget that this is the same side which won in four days at Cardiff, so thay haven't suddenly become bad players.

Neither have I but we need to make changes. Shifting the in-form players up in the order doesn't help because we've got a lot of people out of form. Ballance, Bell, and Lyth collectively average 18.41 between them. In 12 innings, those three have contributed 221 runs, only 6 more than Steve Smith scored in the first innings at Lords. The seamers too need to be looked at. Collectively Wood, Anderson, and Stokes average 70.44 (634 runs, 9 wickets. Jimmy@71, Wood@50, Stokes at 171). Back at the start of the West Indies series, people were talking about Stuart Broad being finished: he's bowled very well in these two Tests. Stokes clearly had a bit of a twinge in the first innings batting. It may well be that he may play as a batsman only in the next Test. 

Do you eject people now or give them a chance this series and then make changes after it's all over? 

axisus

You win some you lose some, but the problem is the total collapse. It's like England football team losing 10-0