The cricket thread

iseverynamegone

Forest about the spirit of cricket , Warner and Clarke are here

Heartfeltdawn

iseverynamegone said:

Forest about the spirit of cricket , Warner and Clarke are here

Warner's a quiet boy now. Daniel Brettig wrote a very good piece about why recently. 

As for Clarke... he won't be shouting and in your face. Not when he looks as suspect against the short ball as anyone in world cricket. 

crunchman

Clarke could end up like Atherton was in his last couple of years.  He was a shadow of what he was at his best because he had no mobility in his back.

Heartfeltdawn

crunchman said:

Clarke could end up like Atherton was in his last couple of years.  He was a shadow of what he was at his best because he had no mobility in his back.

I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if Clarke called it quits if successful at the end of this Ashes series. Reading Ather's autobiography, it don't think it quite conveys the amount of pain he must have been in at the end. 

crunchman

If his recent injury history is anything to go by I'm not sure he'll make it to the end of the series.  Ryan Harris might not either, and the chances of Watson making it to the end (if picked) have got to be remote.

iseverynamegone

I don't know how many times in this thread I said get bairstow in the test team- did anyone listen?

crunchman

Who do you leave out?  Even after his recent struggles Ballance is averaging 52, Bell was main of the series in the last Ashes in England, Root is England's best batsman, you need Stokes as the all rounder now we don't have Swann, and Buttler is averaging over 50.

Would agree he is next in line

iseverynamegone

Ok. With more than a nod to hfd....

Butler gloves off and up to 5, sherminator out. Bairstow keeping at 7.

Cook
Lyth
Ballance
Root
Butler
Stokes
Bairstow
Rashid
Broad
Plunkett
Anderson

Did I mention I'm from Yorkshire?

Heartfeltdawn

Drop Wood for Plunkett? Never

crunchman said:

Who do you leave out?  Even after his recent struggles Ballance is averaging 52, Bell was main of the series in the last Ashes in England, Root is England's best batsman, you need Stokes as the all rounder now we don't have Swann, and Buttler is averaging over 50.

You drop one of Bell or Ballance. It's a very hard call to make. Ballance up to the end of the West Indies tour has had a very good introduction to Test cricket. Bell's got experience on his side. Neither is in great form, Bell has a CC ton under his belt recently though. Bairstow is clearly in good nick. Double centuries are not common against Durham at home. 

For the Australians, the tour match was a good one in terms of deciding where to go for selection. Fawad Ahmed got hammered, Steve Smith chipped in with wickets so the second spinner will be Smith should they need one. It appears Voges has his place in the team so he offers another slow bowling option. Of the seamers, Harris is understandably a bit undercooked and I imagine he will play in the four day game against Essex starting on Wednesday. Big Mitch bowled well by all accounts. I would expect the Aussies to go with something close to their first Test squad against Essex. Starc and Hazlewood to open up, Harris getting another game, Lyon as the spinner, Voges in for Steve Smith whose form is still at top level. Warner should get a knock and I have a feeling they will give Chris Rogers another go out in the middle after he missed the Windies series with concussion. 

Watson was, somehow inevitably, the big loser against Kent. His runs were overshadow by Mitchell Marsh's ton. Crucially he didn't bowl a bowl and Marsh got through a few overs. I can't see him making the first Test.  

Come Cardiff, this is how I would go with Australia. 

Warner

Rogers

Smith

Clarke

Voges

Haddin

Johnson

Starc

Harris

Hazlewood

Lyon

I don't think they will do that though, they would drop Harris from that list and pop in Mitchell Marsh to bat at 6 and to offer a part-time bowling option. I went in 2009 and the Cardiff wicket was a real dog. Panesar and Swann didn't bowl well and the Australians cashed in. Ultimately they didn't win the game due to a lack of bowling firepower as Collingwood dug a trench and Anderson and Panesar hung on. They had four bowlers for that game, (Johnson, Hilfenhaus, Siddle, and Hauritz). Their strength on this tour is the seam attack. I think they should use it and trust in the top order to do their job knowing that the lower order and tail can all bat. 

iseverynamegone

Haddin 6 and Johnson 7 should offer hope. Smith is not a # 3. I know I'm going against history there. I don't really fear their batting, as long as we get runs.

But I still fear pace.

Heartfeltdawn

It's pretty hard to find a number 3 who has got the ability to attack and to defend. Hashim Amla did it very well for South Africa but is now batting at four since taking over the Test captaincy. Kane Williamson is the obvious standout at 3 in both attack and defence. Pujara had a terrible 2014 for India and his place went to Rohit Sharma. Clarke can't go three, Voges is better down the order, and that only leaves Smith. Considering how far Steve Smith has come with the bat, he may well make a good fist of the number 3 slot. 

scrumhalf

I wouldn't judge much from the Aussies' game against Kent. Kent's performance in non-one-day cricket this season has been poor. Managing to score more than 200 twice in a game really doesn't say much for the Aus bowling.

Heartfeltdawn

scrumhalf said:

I wouldn't judge much from the Aussies' game against Kent. Kent's performance in non-one-day cricket this season has been poor. Managing to score more than 200 twice in a game really doesn't say much for the Aus bowling.

There's plenty to judge there. You're right that Kent have been poor this year but that means the performance of Harris for instance gets some perspective. It also makes Fawad Ahmed's performance look even worse, and that Watson wasn't given a single over against them. 

If you saw Mitchell J in the West Indies, he didn't have much rhythm. He looked very jerky, quite shuffly coming up to the crease. From the footage I saw he had better rhythm. With Harris still finding his way back, you'd say the Aussies will go with a two Mitchell/One Hazlewood attack if they only want three out and out seamers. 

crunchman

Looks like Harris is out:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2015/content/story/892931.html

Presumably Mitch, Mitch, and Hazlewood as the fast bowlers then.

scrumhalf

Could be Siddle instead of Hazlewood.

crunchman

Either way, neither of them are as good as the 2013 version of Harris.  Not sure we will ever see that again though.  It's very rare for a fast bowler not to have declined by Harris's age.

Mitch (Johnson) is at the age where his performance could fall off a cliff as well.  From what I've seen he's lost 3mph or so since the last Ashes.  I'm not sure he's quite the threat he was.  With his style of bowling I don't see him being able to carry on at a high level into his late 30s like McGrath did.

I think a lot will depend on the younger players in the series.  If the younger fast bowlers step up for Australia, then England could struggle, but on the other hand if players like Stokes, Wood, and Lyth step their game up a level for England then they could be very good.

Heartfeltdawn

scrumhalf said:

Could be Siddle instead of Hazlewood.

No chance. Since making his debut against India, Hazlewood has 24 wickets in 5 Tests at 19. In that same time period in ODI cricket, he's played 7 games, 9 wickets, at 23 with an economy rate under 4 runs per over. It would be an act of supreme madness to drop him and bring in Siddle, madness on the same level as England picking Darren Pattinson all those years ago. 

crunchman said:

Mitch (Johnson) is at the age where his performance could fall off a cliff as well.  From what I've seen he's lost 3mph or so since the last Ashes.  I'm not sure he's quite the threat he was.  With his style of bowling I don't see him being able to carry on at a high level into his late 30s like McGrath did.

Harris was interesting in that he did perform older as he wasn't burnt out in his younger days. With Big Mitch, it's all about his run up. Remember the Champions Trophy in England not so long back? That was the tournament when the proper MJ came back. When the run up rhythm is right, then he's a real force. Steve Finn is the same, Bob Willis likewise. Those quite big explosive actions need the run up working perfectly. Lawks, Dilley too now I come to think of it. 

Heartfeltdawn

No Bairstow. Boo!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/33346761

crunchman

I see Finn is back.

jpttaylor

Sky Sports reporting that Ryan Harris has retired with immediate effect. 

Can't say I blame him - his body must be shot to pieces. I'd say it makes England's job a bit easier in the Ashes, but if anything it just forces them into selecting Johnson, Stark, Hazzlewood and Lyon with the option of including Siddle.