Sweet home alabama

fretmeister

I've played with boobies again.

You lot are really missing the point of rock & roll.

LastMantra

Imagine people got this passionate about things that actually matter.  :P

HAL9000

Despite the fact that people have argued that Alabama is in G because of the chords used, I still hear it as D. Odd, since the D, C, and G chords are built from the notes D F# A C E G G B D which are certainly all the notes of the G major scale.

So, just wondering why some hear it as being in G and some in D. Is because of the ubiquity of the flattened 7th in pop/blues/rock that we no longer hear the C as being out of place in a D major scale?

And here's another (slightly tongue in cheek) question... What key is Clapton's Cocaine (the song, not the powder ) in? If for a moment you ignore the turnaround where the B7 plants things firmly in the key of E, the progression in the verse consists entirely of the E and D chords. Notes used in these chords are A B D E F# G# which would put the verse in the key of A. (In fact if you play the progession a few times and follow it with an A chord you will hear the resolution.) The guitar breaks are played over this progression without the turnaround being played. Yet I would hazard that very few people, if any, would think of the progression as being in anything other than E.

GuyBoden

HAL9000 said:

Despite the fact that people have argued that Alabama is in G because of the chords used, I still hear it as D. Odd, since the D, C, and G chords are built from the notes D F# A C E G G B D which are certainly all the notes of the G major scale.

So, just wondering why some hear it as being in G and some in D. Is because of the ubiquity of the flattened 7th in pop/blues/rock that we no longer hear the C as being out of place in a D major scale?

And here's another (slightly tongue in cheek) question... What key is Clapton's Cocaine (the song, not the powder ) in? If for a moment you ignore the turnaround where the B7 plants things firmly in the key of E, the progression in the verse consists entirely of the E and D chords. Notes used in these chords are A B D E F# G# which would put the verse in the key of A. (In fact if you play the progession a few times and follow it with an A chord you will hear the resolution.) The guitar breaks are played over this progression without the turnaround being played. Yet I would hazard that very few people, if any, would think of the progression as being in anything other than E.

The chord's musical pull by using cadences is big part of what Functional Harmony is all about, the fifth has the strongest pull, google it.

I'm not that sure, but I'd think Clapton played fifths as chords in Cocaine, I doubt if there were any thirds in his chords, but maybe I'm wrong.

mike_l

GuyBoden said:

I'm not that sure, but I'd think Clapton played fifths as chords in Cocaine, I doubt if there were any thirds in his chords, but maybe I'm wrong.

You're correct.

koneguitarist

GuyBoden said:

koneguitarist said:

Still think it's in G myself, no matter what the argument for D, cause I try not to listen to modes and scales but chords of a song. And the chords point to G major when you add in the F not a F#.

That's because analysing it using good old Functional Harmony theory, the chords will point you to GMajor, but actually it's a modal tune and the Tonic is D Mixolydian.

But, never mind, it will still sound the same anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

Good old, Functional Harmony theory is this below:



I'm not sure what you mean by " And the chords point to G major when you add in the F not a F#."

Well you have a F# in chord of D and a F in G7 makes sense to me

MatthewShreddery

That Clapton song is in E.

MatthewShreddery

Why would it matter if there were thirds or not in the chords? Cocaine is I b7. Simple. You can hear where home is - it's the first chord you hear. E. E for EARS.

viz

I thought it was in A for ALABAMA.

Regarding the 3rds, I'm pretty sure I'm hearing the G# G# F# G# notes, an octave above, granted. They're A-style barre chords on frets 7 and 5 right?

MatthewShreddery

Not listened to it in that much detail but yes probably are those barre cords in there.

mike_l

@MatthewShreddery do you think you're hearing SHA in D because of the D in Cadd9, as well as the D and G chords?

MatthewShreddery

@mike_I ;

I hear it in D because it is in D!

The tonal centre is absolutely D.

Are you a G'er or a D'er?

mike_l

G, because  it's a I/IV/V in G.

I'm not going through the whole arguement again either.

MatthewShreddery

D because it's a I  IV in D.

Theoretically either way is fine.

Aurally - NO.

How can you hear it in G?

mike_l

MatthewShreddery said:

D

How can you hear it in G?

Because that's what I'm hearing, a simple I/IV/V (ok V/IV/I) "blues" type progression leading back to the G chord.

MatthewShreddery

Fair enough - you hear what you hear, that's cool. And to be fair I appear to be in the minority in this thread!

I suppose you guys hear it in G because the chords are like the turnaround at the end of a basic blues (without revisiting chord V in the last bar).

I just can't hear chords like this. (I've already touched on this in previous posts about how if you jumble up the same chords you get a different tonal centre.)

In this sort of progression, the first chord is nearly always the one you're going to hear as the key.

Like when I said about 2 5 1 progressions:

Dm7 G7 C sounds like it's in D minor to me.

C Dm7 G7 - sounds like it's C major.

I feel like this discussion is a little like arguing about how we see colours - you might actually see blue, when I see red, but we'll never really know what we're seeing. Likewise I can never really know what people are actually feeling when they say it's resolved in G, when that might actually mean something different to them than it does to me.

GuyBoden

MatthewShreddery said:

Fair enough - you hear what you hear, that's cool. And to be fair I appear to be in the minority in this thread!

I suppose you guys hear it in G because the chords are like the turnaround at the end of a basic blues (without revisiting chord V in the last bar).

I just can't hear chords like this. (I've already touched on this in previous posts about how if you jumble up the same chords you get a different tonal centre.)

In this sort of progression, the first chord is nearly always the one you're going to hear as the key.

Like when I said about 2 5 1 progressions:

Dm7 G7 C sounds like it's in D minor to me.

C Dm7 G7 - sounds like it's C major.

I feel like this discussion is a little like arguing about how we see colours - you might actually see blue, when I see red, but we'll never really know what we're seeing. Likewise I can never really know what people are actually feeling when they say it's resolved in G, when that might actually mean something different to them than it does to me.

I find this very interesting, so in a ii-V-I, like Dm7 G7 CMaj, you're hearing the D as the Tonic note, I think Modal harmony was made for your ears.

Do you play a lot of Modal stuff?

So, If you played these 3 note chords, what key do you feel:

Chord 1: G C F
Chord 2: G A D
Chord 3: E A B
Chord 4: C F B

MatthewShreddery

I'll get back to u mate. Pissed ATM!

matt1973

It is based on this cliche:

||: D /// | C /// | G /// | D /// : || x add nausium

Adapted to:

||: D /// | C /// | G /// | G /// : || 

Granted, the extra bar of G creates certain level of ambiguity and, in many ways, makes the track what it is. 

However, it's impossible to argue that the aforementioned cliche is in anything other than D; a cliche which the whole essence of SHA is dependant upon.

MatthewShreddery

@GuyBoden I hear them thus: 

1 = G 

2= G 

3= E 

4= C 

When you take three chords and vamp them, it'll usually be the first chord that defines the tonal centre of the vamp. 

It matters not that those chords may be from another key.